New 2014 Seimitsu joysticks on the horizon (updated)


#1

Seimitsu addicts alert. 2ch thread reported~

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1908672/candy/newseimitsu.JPG

source link from official seimitsu website: 2014年 新作販売予定

quick translation:

These will most likely be exhibited at JAEPO 2014

Obviously there is not pictures yet, since JAEPO hasn’t even happened yet.

(My) Speculations about this “LS-60” seems to favor that they are going for the feeling of that ‘other’ joystick. hehe. Or maybe a silent variation? mite be cool.

The Shaftcover is one of the most wanted/complained about features regarding the LS-32, seems like the finally found time to produce one. The “LS-58” is just a simple conversion for those older style cabinets which doesn’t use the 5-pin harness.

now let’s avoid another “this joystick” vs “that joystick” thread. just giving yall heads up on news.


#2

It seems they’re happy with the softer spring design of the LS-58 over the LS-56. Looks like that’s the direction Seimitsu is going. I am reading the LS-60 as 2 things: Either by softer input they mean an even softer spring than the LS-58, which would suck. Or, they mean it’s a quieter stick when you input moves, which is them finally doing a silent variant of their stick.

I’m not sure I’m pleased with this direction. I can’t imagine an even less tense LS-58, and why the LS-58? Haven’t most people who got one ended up buying a 56 spring and pretty much making their own 56? Silent makes a bit more sense in this regard, but… why the LS-58 as a base?

I think the 5x series is decent but that pivot needs to go. I also think it’s too compact for adding more tension to it, and I noticed some fine plastic dust in a well lubed 5x after a good bit of use.

Seimitsu should have used the 40 as a base, extended the shaft so it could be mounted to JLF height in every mass produced stick and cabinet without the need of a S plate. The 40 is their best stick, it seems to get no love.


#3

cant wait to rub the new stick on my face

…no homo :looney:


#4

I really hope if anything that it’s the latter. If anything I really want to see a new stick unlike what they did for the 56 -> 58, really didn’t see too much of a point other than the bling factor of the translucent cover and balltop (Softer spring was just meh, popped that out and replaced it right away) . If they say LS-58 as a base I keep interpreting it as LS-60 = LS58 -> LS-56. Well, I don’t mind the form factor of those sticks those, it was much better than the tank LS-32.

I’m really curious to see what they will be and, if they do turn out to be anything good, if any shops like FA or PAS take them up into their store.


#5

I just want an LS-32 that doesnt wear out within 4 months


#6

@FunkyP What are you doing to your LS-32 that it wears out in 4 months?!

It wouldn’t make sense for it to be the former, but then dumber things have happened in the past. All it really seems like is a tweak to the LS-56 and that’s all it seems they’re doing. Tweak LS-56 call it LS-58, tweak LS-58 call it LS-60. LS-60 should have been a brand new design from the ground up, it’s the start of a new number series after all. Unfortunately, Seimitsu does not think like that and have the worst model naming convention out of all the arcade parts manufacturers, lol.

This seems like a cheap move by Seimitsu, like they’re doing ok but also struggling to stay relevant. Making an announcement for new sticks but the reality is they aren’t new, they’re tweaks. I guess that’s ok, I mean Sanwa hasn’t done anything new for ages either, but they get all the money since they’ve become the standard. Seimitsu is clearly cutting costs here by reusing the same old molds over and over. The LS-60 is going to be the same as the LS-56 but with different switches and a LS-58 spring, and the LS-58 is basically going to use their stock pile of LS-56 switches. One is a spring tweak, one is a spring tweak + switch tweak. What a way to get some attention and make a reason to announce a “new” product. I have to wonder if the LS-56 is Seimitsu’s best selling stick since they keep reusing the same parts over and over. It must be, as I can’t think of any other reason than the 56 having become their flagship product. Seems the LS-32 is following in 2nd. If this keeps up I foresee the LS-40 becoming obsolete in the next few years and production being done on them.

I love Seimitsu, but this is almost bone headed. I can’t understand why the LS-60 isn’t a brand new stick. If they wanted a silent LS-58 why not make a LS-58-S? Obviously the 58 defines the spring tweak + shaft cover so the S would mean Silent. But, now they’ve screwed that by making the LS-32-S which is Shaft. So now they’ve called it the LS-60. But the 6x series is analog sticks since they made the LS-64! So it would make sense that the LS-60 would be a smaller form factor analog stick, right? No! Just like the buttons naming doesn’t make sense! Pricks! Seimitsu are pricks! (search SRK for that thread, lol)

Anyway, I’m sure PA will be first to stock them. They’ve been one of the few to carry a variety the Seimitsu line rather than 1 or 2 parts.


#7

I do remember that thread… spent a day lurking the forums since I didn’t know anything and stumbled across it since I only knew sanwa at the time. Needless to say due to my lack of knowledge my only reaction was “WTF…?”. I guess at the moment we can only take the “new model in style of LS-58” with a grain of salt… Or a whole serving spoon of it. Since we only have that statement I really want to keep my hopes up, but I think hayabusa hype isn’t helping me on this.

anyways…seimitsu should try optical :stuck_out_tongue:


#8

Or go beyond optical and make laser.


#9

Shaft covers for the LS-32 now?

I gotta laugh!
Why didn’t they do this YEARS ago when people like me starting out new were wondering loudly WHY they didn’t match the JLF line with a shaft cover for their most popular joystick?
IF I know Seimitsu, they’ll bundle the LS-32 with a generic black shaft cover. There’ll be no other color options, of course! IF you want more colors, you’ll still have to buy JLF-shaft kits and mod those like I have been for over 4 years now!

Spoiler

[Yes, any JLF-shaft cover can be modded to fit the LS-32. That includes the shaft kits by Mad Catz, Qanba, and the Hayabusa shaft cover which is patterned after the JLF shaft cover. The shaft covers all have to be thinned from the inside by 50% to fit the LS-32. And no, it does NOT compromise the strength of the shaft cover plastic. None of the modded shafts have cracked on me. It’s an involved mod but can done in less than an hour by anyone with small metal files and a cutting head-equipped Dremel…]

@Moonchilde – I agree. The situation with the LS-56/LS-58 is ridiculous! Why compound the problems and confusion with the LS-58 by introducing a “softer” model? I was one of the people who bought a replacement LS-56 spring because the stock LS-58 spring was way too soft! LOL

Softness is the problem I’m encountering with all my LS-joysticks right now.
Sometimes, I can’t get Dragon Punches to come off smoothly when I try to use the “softer” punch buttons. It seems to be a timing issue for me on the LS-32 (less of a problem on the Hayabusa). The fierce/hardest punches almost always seem to trigger on the LS-32 but as anybody playing SF can tell you, you DON’T always throw or use your hardest intensity moves all the time. [details=Spoiler](It’s more of a Ryu issue. I don’t seem to have this problem with Ken. SSF2T is among the weirdest SF2 games with the built-in control law differences for the characters. Very frustrating! Capcom played with the control laws throughout the SF Alpha series, too. Each CPS-2 SF2/Alpha title is its own experience as far as certain character controls are concerned!)[/details] You have to mix it up…! BUT, if for some reasons the lower-force moves aren’t registering, you’re SOL!
The microswitches on the LS-40 just seem to be softer, period, and sometimes harder to hit/time specific moves well at all. I’m beginning to ponder easy mods to fix the issue and I’d appreciate if somebody could point me to some easy microswitch mods that DON’T require complete swap-outs or replacement part buys I’m not prepared to deal with now…
Much as I hate to bring JLF-like solutions up, I’m beginning to wonder if an actuator mod might do the trick or not…

Most frustrating of all, the OEM non-Omron, non-Panasonic/Matsushita microswitches on the Zippyy/LS-32 clone are very inconsistent. One of the Zippyy’s I bought is perfectly fine for the SF games but the other’s microswitches are so mushy in general that I won’t use it for fighting games. I’m seriously debating selling one or both Zippy’s as “general-use” joysticks or upgrading with Seimitsu parts. My advice is that unless you want to do upgrades, you’re better off buying the LS-32-01 or the 0.187/fastener-tab version of the LS-32. You’d barely save any cash buying the Zippyy as it is… (You’re saving roughly $7-$8 on the Zippyy even after you buy the harness converter cable and the SS Mounting Plate. That savings gets wiped away with microswitch and spring part replacements… You still end up a bit ahead of mods with the LS-32 itself BUT a stock -32 generally doesn’t have the quirks the Zippyy does…) The Zippyy has turned into a bit of a disappointment. Good for MAME (think Pac-Man, Donkey Kong) and general gaming (retro-consoles, emulators), not so much for fighters IMHO… The one saving feature of the Zippyy is that it’s an LS-32 clone in every measurement. Any upgrading you can do with the LS-32 can be done on the Zippyy is well. Identical part fits, identical mods!
(The only thing is that the stock Zippyy spring is softer than the LS-32 spring and the microswitches as I mentioned seem to be of very inconsistent manufacture… Springs are an easy cheap fix, microswitch swaps and replacements are more expensive and involved pains!)


What Seimitsu needed to do was redesign the LS-32 to make it more modern, more consistent, and better performing. Keep the good handling qualities of the joystick and tackle the more serious QA issues that hinder its handling on-and-off (the popping, lack of full microswitch registration on moves at times). A do-over more like the Hayabusa with better-quality parts would have been great. Here, they’re more or less just putting on a new layer of paint and not addressing the more serious technical and quality issues with the joystick.

I genuinely like the LS-40 and feel that stick is a better starting point for a new Seimitsu design if they ever figure out where they want to go next… (The one argument I’d make for the LS-56 as a starting point is the longer shaft… I seriously hated having to buy the SS Mounting Plate for every LS-40 purchase I ever made. Every LS-56 and LS-58 that ships from continental US parts vendors gets shipped with the MS Mounting Plate, the MP you need for every in-production joystick case on market! Why hasn’t Seimitsu shipped at least every LS-40-01 with the SS Mounting Plate thus far?) Seriously, as much as I like the LS-32, I think its day is done and that the design should probably be retired soon along with the Sanwa JLW and other designs that have arguably reached their limits… The LS-60 isn’t a good next step!


Hori got it right with the Hayabusa. None of the B.S. with non-standard shaft parts. They copied the basic JLF shaft to take care of the re-equipment needs of that (ball top handles, shaft covers, etc.) and concentrated on making a better base.

I can’t help but think part of Seimitsu’s problem is having all those non-standard parts… the evolution from the LS-32 to the LS-56, at least three different types of shafts, pivots, all the different restrictor gates, etc. The company probably feels hemmed in I’d imagine because the arcades probably want the joysticks to stay the same and not see radical changes that make existing joystick assemblies obsolete or unuseable. It can cost money to keep all those different parts with different specs in production. Again, I think it was smart thinking by Hori to NOT reinvent joystick parts that weren’t worth tinkering with.

It’s never been shaft issues, folks. It’s always been base assembly, basic design and construction and use of quality materials, and microswitches. The H-stick was a real eye-opener for me this past weekend. My notions about several aspects of control levers were basically shattered and redefined by Hori believe it or not – and I was definitely in the corner of hostile Hori part critics BEFORE I got my Hayabusa…

IF Seimitsu were smart, they’d standardize, too, around common parts (LS-56 shaft or the LS-40 shaft) and tackle the base. It’ll mean a new base design with a revised microswitch set-up in all likelihood. (What Hori did with the base and microswitches in the H-stick was very clever… There’s something there worth emulating!) I don’t know that continuing with the same parts they’ve used for over 20 years is the way to go… As economical (CHEAP!) as that sounds, the problems seem to be in the base assembly and cheap plastics they’re using whether it’s the pivot (LS-32 issue) or the microswitches (all the LS-joysticks to some degree).

At least half the LS-joysticks are still generally better than the JLF but my feeling is that the Hayabusa is a more common sense, evolved solution to the control lever problem than the LS-58. LS-32 problems are certainly not solved by a shaft cover, either! That’s a cosmetic, non-performance impacting issue Seimitsu could have tackled 2 decades ago if it’d made any real difference!


#10

@GeorgeC The LS-40 is IMO the best designed and highest quality Seimitsu lever. Period.

The LS-40 has the best and most basic 2 step shaft design. Nothing special or crazy. It simply needs to be about 2 or 3 mm longer above the pivot. This should be a standard shaft in all the LS series of sticks. It’s sturdy and well designed.

The pivot is the best in the series, it’s sturdy and smooth and most importantly, not v-shaped. It smoothly operates in the body. This should be STANDARD in the LS series.

The LS-40’s spring flange is also the best in the Seimitsu line, maybe made from the same mold as the LS-32. It is the thickest and most sturdy, unlike the LS-56 which uses a pitifully small spring flange and I do worry that it will wear faster, especially considering I found plastic dust in my LS-56 on dis-assembly recently.

The LS-40 also has a fairly sturdy body, though a tad large, but still usable and good. What really needs done is modifying the switch layout to the standard plus shaped layout instead of the square corner layout. They should make 2 different bodies based on the same body design. One with what we consider standard Seimitsu engage, and one with larger engage standardized by JLF. Label the Sei engage as LS-40-01 and make it standard and make the JLF engage LS-40-02.

No Seimitsu stick should be without a PCB at this point. Ever. Every single stick should be PCB based. If someone wants, they can remove the PCB and swap in switches as normal. Otherwise, this should be standard.

All they need to do is standardize their line down to this and make tweaks according. Keep the line called LS-40-0x-X and be done with it. The last -X could be a designation for Silent (-S) clear bubble top and shaft cover (-C) opaque top and shaft cover (-O) or whatever else and any combination of the designations.

Then, they should offer a LS-50 series using the same shaft but smaller pivot, spring flange, actuator, and body, and call it their compact stick option. Of course, the same standards (PCB on every stick) and designations should apply, such as LS-50-01 for usual Seimitsu engage and LS-50-02 for the usual JLF engage.

But none of this will happen, because Seimitsu are pricks. They’re the most unorganized and illogical when it comes to standards even across their own product line.

Don’t get me wrong. I’ll say it a billion times, that I love Seimitsu and enjoyed years on their sticks, but when it comes to some stuff they don’t have a clue.


#11

Sanwa JLW is a superior stick compared to the Sanwa JLF. It has a Small tight dead zone, better precision, shorter throw yet its build tough like a IL Eurostick.
So what the joystick does not have a “nice” little PCB for the microswitches, it is not that much harder to wire up individually tabed microswitches.

Then again we have people screw up installing the Seimitsu HP-5 and Sanwa JLF-H Wire Harness.


#12

I agree with most of what you said…

That last sentence I quoted makes me laugh hard because it’s so true about these guys!

I love Seimitsu but they are The Three Stooges of Japanese arcade parts!

Who’s in charge this week at the company – Moe, Larry, Curly, or Shemp?


#13

I actually hear a LOT of good things about the stick, but just like Seimitsu sticks and Hayabusa, JLF far outnumbers them. JLF cannibalizes the JLW business and no one gives a fuck about it. It actually looks like a really high quality stick I just never got around to trying one. I was always too worried it’d end up like my JLF, in someone else’s stick across town, lol.


#14

I admit to having issues installing the harness adapters on my Zippyy’s… I made up a card with the right pin-out after after too long fussing it out. That was not a fun experience!

Honestly, PCB’s are easier to deal with and frankly it takes less time to sort out whether a harness cable needs to be flipped or not versus ground plugging and figuring out direction/orientation the colored cables are supposed to go in. That’s for the birds!

What Hori did with the Hayabusa switch assembly frankly is the best “half-way” solution that anybody’s come up with. The adapter on that one is neat!

It took hours to sort out what was going on with the Zippy’s and harness adapters I bought for them.
I figured it out, yes, but I would have liked to have spent that time playing games with the joystick instead of figuring out the plug-in order and orientation of the harness adapter which was yet another part I had to buy in addition to a replacement mounting plate to use the Zippyy on joysticks.

An all-in-one solution’s better than that even if I have to pay a little extra for it!


#15

Okay so 4 months might be an exaggeration, but with regular use and tournament play the plastic on the actuator wears out and the dust clogs the pivot and microswitches reducing the performance greatly within under a year. The quality on the 32 is still far behind their other sticks.


#16

I wonder if the actuator is made of a different material vs the LS-40 considering it’s green and the LS-40 is white. I know for sure the LS-40 is nylon, it’s exactly the same as the material I used for the spacers and even the color is similar. I haven’t had any wear on my LS-40 actuator and I put a few years on it with regular play.

I noticed some plastic dust in my LS-56 but I believe it was from the body and not the actuator. Wouldn’t surprise me with the pivot design that thing has and how it doesn’t handle higher tension very well.


#17

Now I wonder what material The LS-40’s spring flang is made from? Nylon, Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (ABS), I think Polyoxymethylene (POM) also known as Delrin would be a more suitable material.

I believe the Hayabusa has Delrin parts.

Its a bulkier old school joystick, its a great substitute for American/European parts in many Japanese style arcade sticks.
Other than its bulk and lack of PCB for microswitches the JLW is great stick for fighters.

Older Capcom Power Fighter arcade sticksfor the SNES and Genesis had a JWL installed, (Newer models had a unbranded Seimitsu LS-40)


#18

Hayabusa is definitely delrin. The body is marked as such and the other components are the same material. The gate is the only plastic that is different and it’s marked as lexan.

I’m pretty sure all the LS-40 parts are nylon. It’s a good plastic and low friction as well, sturdy and chemically resilient against the likes of acetone which eats ABS for lunch. Delrin is better but nylon is also good. Too bad none of the plastic is stamped with the material it’s made with. Most plastic is, I don’t know why none of the Seimitsu parts aren’t.


#19

Also apparently the older 90s Sanwa JWL joysticks had metal Pivots instead of plastic.


#20

Wow, finally a shaft cover from the factory for the ls32? I modded plenty to fit the ls32 but now they make them when im not even using the ls32 much anymore. Black shaft covers are fine, keep it classy.

F whatever the ls60 is. They need to make a newer design where they mesh features from previous designs and fix quality issues. LS-69s-EX would be a great name for it.