New A/N Iori Thread

iori

#1

Recent Iori threads blow.
I’m starting a new one.

While it is general knowledge that A-Iori’s greatest weakness is his lack of a run ala N-Iori, in reality once they both get in and get their mixups going there’s not too much of a difference from midscreen to corner, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg. That Difference is critical to understanding A-Iori.
In truth, N-Iori is a stronger character all across the board.

Key things to keep in mind comparing the two:

On Defense

Someone recommended I put in a small section up front for Defense. I guess like fans of football would say, “Defense wins games.”

-DP+MP If the opponent insists on straight up jumping at you, hit them with this. To paraphrase these threads, it’s the “perfect anti-air.”

--d.HP xx HP/LP Fireball A handy way to setup a fireball especially against characters that give Iori no way to throw one such as Blanka/Bison. A-Iori can’t run after the jab fireball so he’s better off throwing the HP Fireball and making the opponent land on it. N-Iori could use the LP and run after it, in a sense it’s another setup for N-Iori to get in.

-Close s.HP, close s.HK, “Crossup” DP+LP Iori’s main tools vs crossup attempts. Close fierce used for characters with abnormally higher jumps. For those who don’t know the “Crossup DP” is basically Forward to down then as the opponent passes over you downback + punch.

-Far s.HK Jumping straight up is the typical way one’d avoid RC’s such as Iori’s RC fierce Rekka, and Far s.HK doubles as an anti-air in situations where they jump in anticipation of the RC.

Now
Without meter

-Getting in
Of course, both build meter fast like once they start racking up the damage by getting in. N-Iori has A beat at least so far as that’s concerned because he’s got short jump as an option to get in, as well as running after fireballs. A is reduced in this regard to zoning with his fireball, but controlling space is fine. Characters like Bison/Blanka, etc. violate this space but I’ll get to that. Of course there’s d.HK, which is really Iori’s main weapon for getting in (Just don’t miss). Both also have RC Fierce Rekkas as an alternative in certain matchups, if it hits complete the sequence and mixup. Don’t forget about far s.HK as his main footsies tool. Oh yeah, there’s also his fast roll, but good players seldom leave themselves open such that you’ll “trick” them with this to get in.
Mostly though expect to go about wearing the other guys guard down mid-range with
s.HK
RC fierce rekkas
d.MP, s.HK
to entice the opponent to get a little sluggish when you proceed to go about the offensive.

“Getting In” is a figurative term anyway. What is really meant by that is taking the initiative in your face style, which is what Iori wants to do. In a fighting game its relatively inevitable that either they’ll come to you or you’ll come to them (unless they really don’t want to, I’ll get to that too). With that said it comes down to knowing how to turn the tables and thus “Get In.”

-**Maintaining Pressure **
-A/N Iori both knock the opponent towards the corner and can cover safe falls from landing his BnB from midscreen (give or take).
-A-Iori can’t easily followup and cover safe falls if he scum gales and does his BnB knocking the opponent towards the center of the screen and away from the corner. N-Iori easily can. He can follow up on sweeps with the run midscreen if he wanted to. Also he now can use his low jumps to maintain momentum. For all intents and purposes N-Iori can establish and maintain his pressure. With A there’s distinct gaps created by having a dash instead of run.
-In other words, to N-Iori cornering is something of a pleasantry, to A-Iori a necessity
(though N-Iori should by all means also keep them trapped, he isn’t limited thus)
-Oh yeah, his roll’s stronger here. Being arguably the best roll, he can easily use it to crossup downed opponents and thus mess with their reversals.

With Meter

Iori builds meter just like a powerhouse should.
Benefits meter has to both N-Iori 'n A-Iori:

-N-Iori
Counter-Movement
Counter-Attack
Lvl 1 super/Powerup/Lvl 3 Super
Naturally you can’t build meter after you break stock, but the option to choose depending on the flow of the match is always good.

A-Iori
Counter-Attack
Lvl 1 Super/Custom

I put notable/best things in bold.
Lvl 1 maiden masher IS good for what it is, but the damage sucks compared to his B&B’s so **don’t bother **unless that damage is all you need and you want to be flashy at the end of a match doing it randomly through Sagat d.HP’s (which works sadly enough). If you want to be stingy options are always good.

Now, with meter
Getting In

N-Iori pretty much plays the same, except that if he’s on the defensive he gets to reversal with his counter movement to whatever he wants as this roll is just as fast if not faster than the regular one. Counter attack really should only be used if it’d be unsafe or unwise to counter-roll any direction, or if you simply feel lazy. You can still follow up but it’d be less damaging. Pressure established.
Breaking stock makes your already damaging B&B’s kill faster, but really doesn’t affect your gameplay so much as it does giving your opponent even more reason to get away from Iori.
A-Iori plays much the same, really doesn’t “Get In” outside of taking advantage of openings. He can simply walk forward if he so wished; he’s got an anti-air CC, guard crush cc, and can always activate CC through attacks. After he lands one technically he’s “IN.” Just don’t get baited, but know you’re good to go if you are, his guard crush CC’s are among the best.

-**Maintaining Pressure **
N-Iori is effectively the same here. If the opponent guesses right on his various mixups Iori can now make use of counter attack/roll to regain control. “Popped” he kills faster, what he deals over 3000 “popped” so three mixups-> B&B’s later and they die. There’s of course the lvl 3 to ensure the deal so you don’t need that many mixups as well.
A-Iori has arguably stronger mixups here.
RC Scum Gale is virtually impossible. Activate Scum Gale is the closest to this Iori’ll ever get, and its strength shows with A-Iori. Invincible or not, unblockable CC’s are now added to the other options of random activate through attacks or as anti-airs or Guard Crush CC’s. If the opponent is still alive following the CC, it’s highly likely they’ll be cornered and since Iori’s still free to mixup it’s likely he’ll win.

I got a list of things to write but I’m tired so later.


#2

Combos 'n setups 'n mixups

B&B’s
Iori’s known for his ridiculously easy b&b’s. Whether you want to do easier rapid fire jabs/shorts to Fierce rekkas or those slightly harder but worth it link combos is really up to you

Ground
Close s.LP x2, d.LK xx qcb+HP x 3
d.LK x 3 xx qcb + HP x 3

s.MP, f+MP xx qcb + HP x 3
close s.LP, s.HP xx qcb + HP x 3

Meaty d.MP x 2 xx qcb + HP x 3

*I’m sure there’s more but I’m relatively sure the s.MP one does the most damage, that or close s.LP, s.HP.

**Since his close s.LP is a 2 frame jab, it’ll combo off his crossup b+LK following both regular jumps or low jumps.

***Naturally, you can do virtually all of these off the Scum Gale, though off Scum Gales I typically keep it simple since I got twitchy fingers with d.HP xx qcb+HP x 3.

Low Jump

Low jump roundhouse xx dp + LP

*Once again I’m sure there’s more I’ll update if people care to post suggestions.

CUSTOMS

CC [dp+LP, close s.HK xx roll], [dp+LP, d.HP xx roll] until corner, [dp+LP, close s.HK] until 8 hits [jump straight up j.LP x 5] until meter runs low, j.LP, j.MK land qcb+HP, d.HP xx qcb, hcf+P CC Ends DP + HP

*This is Iori’s heaviest damaging, general purpose Custom.
**It’s unwise (even with JD/Parries) to jump at A-Iori with a full meter. Better to try to set-up their jump ins so they can at least crossup or go deep and be safe. If they crossup learn how to do “crossup” dp’s.
HCB (stop at Down Back) + P (in this CC’s case LP)
*** The Freeze super can be mashed out of just like regular stun. If they do/try dp after 2 hits or forget it and go for Maiden Masher instead. The advantage with the 8 Wine Cups super is the added stun from the Fierce Dragonpunch.

CC, dp+LP, land d.HK x n, super

Perhaps the simplest, most braindead CC Iori’s got. Except for the freeze super (for the most part, though you could do it here) Everything above applies.

CC, F+MP x N, d.HK, super

I don’t do this CC but this is the gist of it. I don’t think this even comes close to the first one (even if you tweak it)

CC dp+LP x N

Iori’s Guard Crush. Difficult to learn (maybe next to impossible to do consistently), and not quite so much chip damage but its worth it it in that it grants 100% Guard Crush and it beats out plenty of worthwhile AC’s. Learn to follow up on your guardbreaks for added punishment.

Scum Gale, CC
Activating following the command grab and linking a hard normal should be cake, but for some reason the link’s somewhat strict and some people have trouble. If for the life of you you can’t do this then just start your CC off with a d.MK instead.

SUPERS
It doesn’t take much brains to figure out how to combo into Iori’s lvl 3 Maiden Masher. In another way its very similar to how he’d go about landing his B&B’s off close s.LP or d.LK’s. In his Mixup Patterns it really just amounts to a heavily damaging B&B, but you just lost your powerup bonuses. I’d try to make every bit of damage from that bonus count before landing your lvl 3. Kill’s Faster That Way.

MIXUPS
Done when you’re either in or following a knockdown…
Lots of these are in your most basic sense your run 'o the mill close in counterhit/throw patterns, with the Scum Gale added for extra damage/stun with b&b’s. Ideally you want to get them with counter-hits so they’re more prone to blocking so you can land the Scum Gale with abandon.


“Meaty” (or not) close s.LP (very slight pause), Scum Gale
"" “”" “”" “”" “” “”" close s.LP “” “” “” “”" “”" “” Counter-hit close s.LP or d.LK

*Or go low same exact way with the s.LP but with d.LK’s

Crossup Roll, Scum Gale or 1st listed pattern(s) up above.

*Roll’s done so you recover, free to move, when they’re just about up. (Ideally within his counterhit/meaty close s.LP time range) This takes some pratice as lots of characters have varying “wakeup speeds.”
**Screws with reversals
***Way to do the Scum Gale so it grabs consistently after the roll is hcb, f, b + P
…(quickly now, but be precise; you don’t want to get 8 Wine Cups)

Crossup Regular Jump b + LK, Scum Gale or 1st pattern(s) up above

Crossup Low Jump b + LK, Scum Gale or 1st pattern(s)

(Late) Low Jump LP, Scum Gale or 1st Pattern(s)


Running Mixups

I am not going to go into too much detail here like with the previous, but in principle it’s essentially the same thing. To compensate for Iori’s slow ass walk, you now have RUN, which is boosted in this close up game vs dash with its ability to be canceled any time during the run rather than just letting it skid. You can even cancel the skid animation with a low jump if you’re slick.

*Remember that the range for Iori landing his Scum Gale (52 Pixels) is ideal.
**If the other guy blocks all day run up for more d.LK’s or close s.LP’s or even run up Scum Gale. Run up close, d.LK, low jump crossup b + LK mixups.
***You can do everything you want so long as you practice landing those counterhits and knowing just how much of an edge a +7, 2 frame close s.LP gives you or in general how much for d.LK’s give you.

Dash Mixups

This is another neg. for A-Iori. Not only is his game for setting up his mixups harder in A, his dash sucks. Still, a dash is a dash, and all dashes are useful in a basic way.
Similar mixups to run but since you can’t cancel the dash in Iori’s case not so useful.
Dash in activate’d be good except people can see this dash miles away; you need to do more baiting counter-hits or forcing them to block to get away with this.

-Vs Characters with 2 frame normals of their own (Blanka/Bison ne1?) or Cammy go easy on the command grabs and just give them more counter-hits until you convince them they SHOULD block.

-However factor in activation (with all its strengths/weaknesses) and you get Activation Scum Gale, which you can (and should) feel free to execute where ever you see regular command grabs in the above patterns, as well as subsequently “ignore” the previous comment. Let 'em have it.
Just know that you’re probably better off with the f+MP mashing Custom following activate scum gale since it generally deals more damage and you’ll loose time/damage anyway watching the command grab during CC’s. It’s effectiveness is significantly stronger vs mashers or people who watch for significant gaps in your patterns before they try to poke, as well as K/P Groovers in general. You can activate through deep jump in’s and nail P/K with it for example.

-I don’t think I’m missing much (but feel free to correct me I’ll just update) but that’s the gist of it.


#3

Some Notably Bad Matchups

Blanka
Bison
Been messing around.
Bison’s probably not too likely to throw out too may Psycho Crushers unless you corner him or you’re too predictable with whatever you’re pressuring him with such as s.HK and he does RC Pyscho Crushers in response (Though in this case it’d likely be Scissors xx Death instead). Still, it’s likely he’ll Psycho Crusher out the corner so

If he does though both A/N Iori could:

Block,
"""""“Crossup” Dp+LP, then d.HK Bison’s Safe Fall. N-Iori can probably do this anywhere with run.
"""""“Super, lvl 1 or 3
"”"""“Close s.HP/Far s.HK/ d.HK -Simplest, least chance of messing up, but least rewarding
”""""“CC (Corner’d only)(Not Likely)
”"""""Fierce Rekka’s x 3 (Mid-screen to corner range) (Last hit will catch Safe fall in corner) (Not Likely since this only works from center-stage unless he’s stupid or working for Guard Crush… Though u could bait one…)

Activate, dp+LP in response to a psycho crusher could work. I can’t do it too close of course; the PC’s are too fast.
You could try to bait one from afar with Iori’s s.lk since it looks like a fireball, but it’s probably a one trick pony since Iori SHOULDN’T throw fireballs at Bison anyway and Bison likely knows this. If you’re setting up fireballs though he may since you set the stage for possibly another to respond to. Use caution if he’s got meter, he may just scissor kick.
It’s A-Iori’s best shot though, then followup with a crossup and make him lose his charge.

-Some random anti-Bison Stuff http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59608

Punishing 1-Hit Scissors…

Chun-Li

I’m figuring these out through the forums myself I’ll just post what I find out.
For the most part just know that these three are just as susceptible as any other character once Iori’s got that momentum going for him. Problem of course is just getting there.
I do know that these three give him a hard time though, initially (generally accepted). Maybe E.Honda too I’m not quite sure, yet.
It’s always a good idea anyway to figure out how to best play out a match the way it should be played no matter how bad even if you’re technically fated to loose.
He fights Sagat 'n Cammy on somewhat even grounds. (I’ll even go so far as to say he beat’s Cammy, but I won’t hazard a guess like 6-4 or some such)

This weekend I think I’ll look for openings A-Iori can exploit vs his hardest hitting matchup: Bison, Blanka


#4

Final Note -N-Iori

Oh yeah for further information it’s generally recommended you read
Buktooth’s N-Iori Faq on Gamefaqs. Further information is really only possible through matchup discussion.

**Edit: **Actually he’s got more dope info in that Faq vs Bison/Blanka/Chun alone vs everything in Iori’s spec. threads. Read those instead especially if you’re going N. For the most part though its similar to A just keep everything listed above about differences in mind 'n you’re good. A’s 2 Button cheapness goes a long way fighting Bison/Blanka though.


#5

This is really for those who don’t know any better and don’t bother searching the forums. Obviously that’s what the wiki is for but 'till it’s completed here’s this (not so complete yet) "discussion."
Oh yeah, thank everyone who contributed something worthwhile in previous, not-so-recent threads. There are quite a number of you and I’m sure you all know who you are and can tell what information I got from you or not.
As for myself, all the gameplay experience I got with and against Iori is really from my bro, and he though he doesn’t quite do everything listed here thus far, he taught me enough with the beatdown.

edit: Oh yeah I’ll be updating these basically if I find I forgot stuff or find new things about A/N Iori’s Bad matchups.

And to whoever said N Iori can be anybodies nightmare;
Try It!

I want to stab you in the face too.:tdown:


#6

havent read most of this, looks decent enough to stick


#7

c.MP, s.LP xx HP rekkas

against rolls, or as your regular combo off a meaty. easier link when it connects normally


#8

I’m not sure how useful this is due to noone in my city is any good, but i find that Iori’s easiest, most damaging B&B is:
j.FP, s.FP xx QCB+FPx3

of course you can’t just jump in all the time, but it is good for dizzying too


#9

If you want dizzy over damage swap out the rekkas for his fierce uppercut.


#10

True. I also forgot to mention to sub. j.FP with j.RK. semms to give a little more slack


#11

Nah, for me the easiest B&B combos are the ones starting off c.LK or c.MP.

I prefer j.HK over j.HP because of its range and its hitbox but if the opponent is dizzy you should definitely go for the j.HP since that does a bit more damage. If you’re using N-Iori you can replace j.HP/HK with low j.HP/HK, since that’s harder to counter on reaction.
There’s also all sorts of mix-ups you can do after low jump attacks: lj.HK / c.LK(2x) x Rekka kens; lj.KH / c.MP x Rekka kens; lj.HK / s.LP, Scum Gale; lj.HK / c.LK, wait a bit, CH c.MP x Rekka kens; etc. Cross-ups are good too, cross-up j.LK / combo; cross-up roll -> combo; etc. Just learn to mix it up and you’re good to go.

Owensboro huh? That’s about 3 hrs from where I live. Too bad I don’t have a car. I’d love to have some competition but nobody plays fighting games where I live.


#12

anyone know how to do iori’s off the ground throws for a-groove? Not that its really useful, and i use iori in n-groove anyway, i just wanna know so i can show off and stuff.


#13

OTG can only be done in A-groove during activation and it also can only be done on Dan and Rolento.


#14

thanks, i use n grove w/ iori and i’ll try to implement this


#15

Fixed:lovin:

Kyo can OTG in A-Groove off a connected ground pound.
Yamazaki’s got some sorta OTG freakiness as well IIRC in C-Groove.
There aren’t too many OTG sort of people in this game though.


#16

Anyone still playing and devising strats? I’m having a real hard time with Honda, he just eats me alive. Can’t jump due to lp headbutt, can’t FB due to hp headbutt. Roll is risky, been trying to bait sweeps but it’s unreliable. S.hk works pretty good, but honda can just guess headbutt with no risk.

With meter, I do okay. if I block a headbutt, I’ll counterroll and scumgale xx combo of choice, or counterhit lp into combo of choice. Other than that though, I can’t really solve him.

Ideas?


#17

WORK THE GUARD BAR MORE.

99% of players dont really think to work the guard bar until they’ve, by chance, gotten it low through the normal course of gameplay.
working the guard is extremely important vs. honda/vega/blanka/turtley sagats.
keep it in your mind that when things arent going your way, plan B is to work the guard bar, even if that bar is at 100%

also to counter random headbutt guesses, do random jump back.
you should land on top of him.
or whats probably smarter, counter it with rc rekkas.
i think the first one will cause the 2 of you to whiff, the next 2 will combo.


#18

I found the advice to be very useful, but then again, I’m a scrub for right now. The B&B combos you’ve all put up and have been doing my best to learn the execution and timing. It’s hard to find a community with good players and all when you don’t know where to look. I’ve only started taking the game seriously at the end of last year and I’ve always Loved Iori. I have a question about grooves, however.

I love using A groove with Sakura and Hibiki and I want to use Iori on the team, but he gains a better benefit from N groove and so he lack mobility on A groove with the other girls. Can anyone help come up with a solution to my party problem or help me learn how to play Iori on A groove? It would be very helpful.