NEW Back Throw To MP Safe Jump Results!

Unfortunately I had to make a whole new thread for this because there was too much info to edit into my original safe jump thread. It was too big for one post but I wanted to keep all the data on one page so I’m moving everything here.

Update: *Results for Super are finally in! Here’s the deal: I’ve added all the new characters, as well as all the new Ultras, but I haven’t gone back and tested any of the existing moves that might have changed. If you think of any specials or Ultras that might have been significantly adjusted since Vanilla, post in this thread and I can retest it.

New Notes:

-It used to be that Dhalsim was the only character that could Ultra this safe jump. With the addition of Counter Ultras and Adon, this is no longer the case. Pay attention to what Ultra you are up against.

-Since there are so many characters now, I’ve reorganized the list to be in alphabetical order so it’s easier to lookup a specific fighter. It used to be according to effectiveness of the setup, but you can figure that out by reading the results.*

Basically as described by Tastsu, this setup involves back throwing your opponent, then immediately holding up-forward to jump in with strong punch. For best results, the mp should be inputted late, just before you land. It will hit a standing character, but allow you to land safely in time to block if they try any reversals. You can punish backdashes by option selecting cr rh or cr hp.

I was overjoyed at the results I got on Rufus since that bastard is one of my worst match ups personally. In fact, I was surprised with how well it does against some of Claw?s suckier matchups. Here?s what I came up with:

I?ll bold anything I find particularly interesting or useful.

-All these notes are for the back throw to jump mp setup only.

-I try to distinguish between a move completely whiffing or just getting blocked, since on block a lot of moves can be safe with FADC.

-Most characters can crouch block and avoid your MP, so be aware if you are option selecting the slide. If someone likes to crouch under your MP, you can switch to LK instead, which will hit crouching characters and allow for a combo. Just be sure they like to crouch since LK is not a safe jump.

Abel- Extremely effective when Abel has no meter, Vega?s mp is only bested by EX command grab. And EX command grab HURTS. Be ready for Ultra 2 if it’s stocked. Jump-in hits if Abel crouches.

-Stuffs normal Change Of Directions, EX COD absorbs your mp, then gets blocked
-Stuffs all Wheel Kicks
-Stuffs normal Falling Sky, EX Falling Sky whiffs
-Stuffs all rolls except for EX
-Stuffs normal Tornado Throws, **but EX Tornado wins **
-Stuffs mp and hp Super, lp Super is blocked
-Ultra 1 is blocked
-Ultra 2 can be jumped out of on reaction, but make sure you jump forward to land behind Abel or he can charge it and catch you as you come down. Don’t backflip for this same reason.

Adon- Wow. You know that scene from Indiana Jones where they open the Ark of the Covenant and the dudes’ faces melt off? That’s what I felt like as I gazed upon the shittyness of this setup vs Adon. Never use this on him, ever ever ever! Nearly anything he does will beat or escape your MP… In fact, he avoids it by doing absolutely nothing! Vega’s jump-in whiffs if Adon just stands with no input. It whiffs if he crouches too. But wait, it gets worse! Adon can freely jump in any direction on wakeup, including jumping forward to cross you up!

I need to expand on this a little bit more. It seems that the reason most of his moves beat the safe jump is because Adon wakes up faster than any other character. In order to get a reversal from Adon I noticed I had to input the move much earlier than I was used to. This speedy wakeup even allows Adon to AA your jump with a standing normal (MP)!

-An immediate standing MP will beat your safe jump clean
-Free crossup pressure for Adon if he jumps fwd
-Stuffs all Jaguar Kicks, but who the fuck is gonna wake up with Jaguar Kick
-Stuffs normal reversal Rising Jaguars, but loses to EX Rising Jaguar. Also loses to all slightly delayed (non-reversal) Rising Jaguars
-All Jaguar Tooths escape Vega’s MP
-All versions of Super connect for full damage
-Ultra 1 gets blocked
-[media=youtube]rI6-JzxV-_M&feature=related"]**Ultra 2 connects[/B[/media]

Akuma- Works great on Akuma, but be cautious of a wake up Ultra 1 (which can be avoided on reaction). The safe jump technically stuffs Akuma?s Super, however just like Honda?s Oicho Throw, Akuma can input the super as he crouches under your mp and grab you as you land. Obviously, jump-in whiffs if Akuma crouches.

-Like Ryu and Ken, crouching fwd can avoid your attack and catch you as you land
-Stuffs lp Shoryuken, mp is blocked, hp and EX whiff completely.
-Stuffs all Demon Flips and Tatsu?s
-Stuffs Super, however just like Honda?s Oicho Throw, Akuma can input the super as he crouches under your mp and grab you as you land.
-Ultra 1 can be dodged with a jump out or backflip, but will connect if you block or follow the safe jump with an attack
-Ultra 2 whiffs

Balrog- 100% Safe! Hell yeah! Jump-in hits if Balrog crouches. Eat it!

-Turn Punch gets blocked
-All Headbutts whiff!!
-All normal Dash punches get stuffed, EX absorbs the mp but is then blocked. You can probably even beat the EX punch with a followup after the mp eats the armor, but I didn?t test this.
-Super and Ultra 1 are both blocked
-Reversal Ultra 2 is stuffed, and Vega is out of range if he blocks the jump-in first

Blanka- 100% Safe! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: Finally catch a break against this asshole. Don?t do it if chip damage from Ultra can kill you. Jump-in whiffs if Blanka crouches.

-Stuffs all Horizontal Balls
-Electricity whiffs
-All Backstep Balls whiff and need to be blocked
-All Vertical Balls get blocked
-Super and Ultra 1 get blocked

-Ultra 2 AA version whiffs, ground version gets blocked

C. Viper- 100% Safe! Very effective! Anything she does gets stuffed, blocked, or whiffs. Jump-in whiffs if Viper crouches.

-HP Thunder Knuckle whiffs! Punish that shit.
-EX Burning Kick whiffs
-EX Siesmo gets blocked

-Super gets blocked
-Ultra 1 gets blocked
-Ultra 2 is N/A since it is air activated.

Cammy- 100% Safe Unless U2 Is Stocked Great stuff, her Cammy Quick Combination Ultra is the only reason not to use this on her. Great punishment opportunity after a whiffed Cannon Spike (she can?t FADC). Jump-in whiffs if Cammy crouches.

-All Spiral Arrows get blocked
-All Spin Knuckles whiff
-Stuffs Houligans
-All Canon Spikes completely whiff!!!
-Super and Ultra 1 get blocked
-Ultra 2 connects

**Chun Li- ** Quite safe and awesome VS the Chunster, with the exception of cr jab spam. Jump-in whiffs if Chun Li crouches.

-Both crouching short and crouching jab will catch you on your landing. If you?re playing one of those Chuns that likes to substitute cr jab for blocking and teching, this might actually get you.
-Stuffs all Lightning Kicks and Hazanshu?s
-Stuffs normal Spinning Bird Kicks, EX Spinning Bird Kick whiffs!
-First hit of Super will connect and knock you away. However, this is low damage and worth the risk imo, especially if it eats up her whole meter.
-Ultra 1 will either whiff completely under you or get blocked, depending on the timing.
-Ultra 2 gets blocked

Cody- 100% Safe! It’s not all bad news for the new characters, Cody has to sit there and take it…just like he did in prison! Jump-in whiffs if Cody crouches.

-Stuffs all Bad Stones
-Stuffs normal Criminal Uppers, EX Criminal Upper is blocked
-Stuffs all Ruffian Kicks
-All Zonk Knuckles get blocked
-Super gets blocked
-Both Ultras get blocked
. If Cody is using U2 (Last Dread Dust) and you are blocking, you don’t have to sit there and take the full chip damage. If you have Ultra, you can either reversal Splendid Claw on reaction as his Ultra animation starts, or you can wait until the first hit is blocked (he kicks up dirt at you) and then reveral Splendid Claw. If you don’t have Ultra, you can wait until that first kick is blocked, and then PPP flip. Cody will pass through you and you will flip with him across the screen. Then you can just jump in or walk slightly forward and punish him with a CL Fierce combo.

Dan- 100% Safe! 100% Saikyo! If Dan avoids your jump mp by Super Taunting, goddamnit you let that Super Taunt finish, do you hear me?! You let it finish! Jump-in whiffs if Dan crouches.

-All Gadoukens get blocked. I found this interesting because every other character?s projectile gets stuffed, but Dan?s moves his hitbox in a way that avoids the mp.
-Normal Dankukyaku?s (Tatsu?s) get blocked, EX Kick gets stuffed.
-Stuffs lp Shoryuken, mp and hp whiff, EX gets blocked
-Super Taunt avoids jump-in!
-Super and both Ultras are blocked

DeeJay- 100% Safe! Works beautifully, so punish his flash kick move and knock the pedosmile off his face. Jump-in whiffs if DeeJay crouches.

-Stuffs all Sonic Boom things
-Stuffs normal Sobat Kicks, EX gets blocked
-Stuffs hk Jackknife Maximum (Flash Kick)… lk, mk, and EX Kicks whiff
-Stuffs normal Machine Gun Uppers, EX MGU gets blocked
-Super gets blocked
-Both Ultras get blocked

Dhalsim- Works great against his specials, but never do this when he has Super or Ultra 1 ready. Jump-in whiffs if Dhalsim crouches.

-Lk slide can avoid your attack and hit you as you land
-Stuffs all Yoga Flames
-Stuffs normal Yoga Bursts, EX Burst whiffs
-Super connects
-Ultra 1 trades hits heavily in Sim?s favor
-Ultra 2 is N/A since it is air activated

Dudley- This safe jump setup is complete gutter trash on Dudley and Vega has no dignity after using it. It’s almost as terrible as on Adon. Not only do his Jet Uppers and his Super win, Dudley can keep it classy all day with any version of Cross Counter. Jump-in whiffs if Dudley crouches, but then, you aren’t using this on Dudley anyway right?

-lp and mp Jet Upper get blocked, hp + EX Jet Upper connect
-Stuffs all Machine Gun Blows
-All Cross Counters cross-counter
-lk Short Swing Blow whiffs, all others get blocked
-Duck avoids the jump-in, Upper and Straight followups get blocked
-lk, mk and EX Thunderbolt get blocked, HK Thunderbolt whiffs
-All versions of Super own you
-Both Ultras get blocked

E. Honda- I?m kind of on the fence about this one. The safe jump works perfect on all his reversals, and should be great against most Hondas you fight. But if the Honda knows what to expect after you score a back throw, he gets a free Oicho command grab. Honda can just crouch under your jump mp and Oicho your landing frames. The grab beats all option selects I tried too, including cr hp and backflip. I guess at that point you start mixing up with jump in short instead of mp, to punish the crouch? so maybe it?s not so bad afterall. Again, Jump-in whiffs if Honda crouches.

-Lk Sumo Smash misses on the way up but needs to be blocked on the way down, O-S slide avoids this. All other versions of the butt slam thing whiff completely.
-Reversal Oichos are stuffed, but like I said, he lands it easily if he crouches a moment first.

-Lp Headbutt gets blocked, mp and hp are stuffed. EX Headbutt gets blocked.
-Super and Ultra 1 are both blocked
-Stuffs Reversal Ultra 2, Vega is out of range after a block

El Fuerte- This setup should work well against most unknowing Fuertes, but like Akuma be aware if they have Ultra 1. Don’t do it at all if they have Ultra 2. Against a Fuerte that?s wise to your tactics though, I would only recommend trying this under the condition that you option select slide, and I?ll explain why below. Jump-in whiffs if Fuerte crouches.

-Stuffs Quesadilla Bomb
-All Guacamole Leg Throws whiff
-Both forward and back Habanero Dashes avoid your j mp!
Essentially any time you use this setup without O-S slide, you are subjecting yourself to Fuerte?s brutal wakeup shenanigans (as if YOU got knocked down). If he runs on wakeup, he avoids your jump-in and is free to play the tostada/tortilla/whatever guessing game as you land. O-S slide will either beat or avoid most of his options, the exceptions being Gordita Sobat and Sudden Stop. He can still EX Dash to absorb your slide though.
-Super gets blocked
-Ultra 1 can be dodged with a jump out or backflip, but will connect if you block or follow the safe jump with an attack
-Ultra 2 connects

Fei Long- 100% Safe Unless U2 Is Stocked! Another character that this setup shines on, but watch his counter Ultra. Punish those flaming kicks! Jump-in whiffs if Fei crouches.

-Stuffs all Rekkas
-Lk Chicken Wing gets blocked, all others whiff
-All Flame Kicks whiff!!!
-Super and Ultra 1 get blocked
-Ultra 2 connects

Gen- 100% Safe(maybe?)! No worries using it on this guy. Then again I suck with Gen, I just realized that maybe Gen can do his glitch parry into punish on your safe jump? I would think you could still block in time though, maybe someone can confirm this? Probably don?t have to worry about it unless you plan on playing Yeb :slight_smile: Jump-in whiffs if Gen crouches.

-Stuffs all Jyasen
-Stuffs normal Ogas, EX Oga lets him escape. You might have to block a followup.
-All Gekiro (the up kicks) whiff!
-Punch activated Super and Ultras get blocked
-Kick activated Super and Ultras whiff (U2 is N/A since it is air activated)

Gouken- Not a good idea against this character, solely because of his parry. Everything else is gravy, but he can punish your jump strong every time. Jump-in whiffs if Gouken crouches.

-Stuffs all Palm Strikes
-Lk, mk, and EX Tatsu get blocked, hk Tatsu whiffs
-Stuffs normal Demon Flips, EX Flip whiffs on 2/3 of his options, but must be blocked high if he does the dive kick.
-Parries own your face. You want your face to stay pretty, because handsome fighters never lose!
-Super and both Ultras get blocked

Guile- Unfortunately, pretty useless or risky on Guile since it loses to ALL Flash kicks and Super. However, doing an empty jump rather than mp is completely safe vs Flash Kick and Super, and can be a great way to bait these moves for a big punish. Jump-in whiffs if Guile crouches.

-Stuffs all Sonic Booms
-Any strength Flashkick beats you, empty jump if he has a bad Flashkick habit
-Super will connect, again empty jump can bait this
-Both Ultras get blocked

Guy- 100% Safe! As far as I can tell, this setup is still completely safe on Guy despite what I am just about to reveal to you. Guy has a bizarre hitbox that causes Vega’s safe jump mp to whiff regardless of whether he is crouching, standing idle, or blocking in either position. Luckily unlike Adon, Guy will be hit if he tries to jump in any direction. This means you will only connect if Guy jumps or does a move that gets stuffed. Because of this, option-selecting is a bad idea since it will likely activate when you dont want it to. The safe jump is still useful since you aren’t really at risk and there’s a chance Guy will burn an EX Tatsu trying to reversal.

-lk and mk Senpukyaku (hurricane kick) get blocked, hk and EX whiff completely. You can go into the bathroom, brush your long shimmering hair, admire your beauty in the mirror, and then come back in time to punish this.
-All Hozantos get blocked
-Stuffs normal Runs, EX Run absorbs the mp, but he’s too close to use the overhead kick or safely stop
-All Bushin Flips avoid your jump-in, I believe lp and EX can be a threat at that range, any other strength will pass over you. If you stay crouched, he CANNOT grab you with the flip, and the elbow drop is not an overhead so you can block it from that position. You can also probably just Scarlet Terror on reaction if you see him flip but I haven’t tested any of this.
-Super whiffs
-Ultra 1 gets blocked
-Stuffs reversal Ultra 2, a non reversal Ultra 2 is out of range and will whiff

Hakan- If Hakan is not oiled up (or even if he is oiled but has no EX meter), then the only thing you have to fear is his Ultra 2, which probably grabs birds out of trees from 30 yards away and shit. The only wake up special he can do to beat this safe jump is an EX 360 grab while oiled. Jump-in hits if Hakan crouches!

-Stuffs normal Oil Slides, EX gets blocked
-Stuffs all normal Oil Rockets (SPD), EX without oil whiffs, EX with oil connects
-Stuffs all Oil Dives (running grab)
-Stuffs mk and hk Super, lk Super whiffs if you stay crouched
-Stuffs reversal Ultra 1
-Ultra 2 connects and Hakan humps the shit out of you in a 69 position. Let’s not let that happen.

Ibuki- Just like Guy, Ibuki has the odd hitbox properties that cause your j mp to whiff on her standing block.(Unlike Guy, she does get hit if she stands with no input.) Keep this in mind, but the safe jump is still decent on her as long as she has no EX meter to do her DP kick with. Jump-in whiffs is Ibuki crouches as well.

-Stuffs normal Kazegiri (DP kick), but EX Kazegiri wins
-All Neckbreakers are blocked
-All Raida (command grabs) are stuffed
-Tsuijigoe (aerial flip) dodges Vega’s j mp
-Stuffs all Tsumuji (rapid kicks)
-Stuffs Kasumigake (fwd dashes)
-Aerial Super N/A
-Stuffs reversal Ultra 1, non reversal can be blocked
-Ultra 2 gets blocked

Juri- 100% Safe! Doesn’t matter how mashed they are, no pinwheels are hitting you with this setup. Jump in MP for days! Whiffs if Juri crouches.

-Stuffs EX Fuhajin (fireball kick), normal Fuhajins whiff
-All Senpusha (pinwheel kicks) get blocked!
-Stuffs normal Kasatuhi (counter/dodge thingy), EX version absorbs the mp and lets her dash in different directions
-Super gets blocked
-Ultra 1 activates, avoiding the mp
-Ultra 2 whiffs

Ken- I don?t recommend using this setup on Ken much, because it loses to hp SRK. And we all know that if there?s one thing a lot of Ken players like to throw out there, it?s a fierce SRK. Otherwise, it actually works well, but definitely don?t do it if Ken has Super stocked. Jump-in whiffs if Ken crouches.

-Like Ryu and Akuma, Ken can avoid your mp and hit you as you land with crouching forward. Still, strict timing and not a likely scenario unless Ken is totally familiar with this setup.
-Stuffs all Tatsu?s
-Lp and mp Shoryuken completely whiff, EX SRK gets blocked
-Hp Shoryuken rapes you and probably takes your mask and claw and any sense of dignity you have too. Uncertain whether it sleeps with your mom.

-Super will connect
-**Both Ultras get blocked **

M. Bison- 100% Safe! Just be sure not to continue mashing out a block string if he wakes up with Headstomp. Option-select slide is probably a good choice when he has no meter, since it should take blocking Headstomps out of the equation (and even let you punish in some cases), and it puts you in striking distance if Bison teleports backward on wakeup. Be careful of wakeup EX Psycho Crusher, however, as this will beat an OS slide. Jump-in whiffs if Bison crouches.

-Stuffs all normal Psycho Crushers and Scissors, and both EX versions get blocked
-Headstomps avoid your mp (EX won?t hit you on the way up either though), but then you have to worry about him coming down. O/S slide to avoid this issue.
-Super and Ultra 1 get blocked
-Ultra 2 can be jumped out of on reaction, but you will be hit if you remain blocking. Option-selects get nullified during the Ultra animation so if you OS a slide or backflip it won’t avoid this.

Makoto- 100% Safe! Androgynous fighters beware, Vega’s backthrow safe jump owns you! Poor Makoto kinda got shit on in Super don’t you think? The only thing you have to worry about is her EX overhead chop that can hit you if you stay crouched. Jump-in whiffs if Makoto crouches.

-All Fukiage (SRK) whiff
-Stuffs EX Hayate (dash punch), normal Hayates get blocked
-Stuffs normal Oroshi (overhead chop), EX Oroshi avoids the jump-in and must be blocked high
-Stuffs normal Karakusas, EX Karakusa whiffs
-Ultra 1 gets blocked
-Ultra 2 whiffs

Rose- 100% Safe! Rose never had much of a wake up game, but knowing that even her Ultras can?t catch you is a good thing. Jump-in whiffs if Rose crouches.

-Lp Soul Refect whiffs, all others stuffed
-All Soul Throws whiff
-Stuffs mp and hp Soul Spiral, lp and EX get blocked
-Super and both Ultras get blocked

Rufus- 100% Safe!!! :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: Let?s check the score, that?s ?1? for Vega?..?872? for Rufus? Jump-in whiffs if Rufus crouches.

-Stuffs normal Snake Strikes, EX Snake Strike whiffs
-Stuffs normal Messiah Kicks, EX Messiah gets blocked! Scarlet Terror to avoid the mixup at the end.
-Stuffs reversal Super
-Both Ultras get blocked

Ryu- Very effective, works like a charm on his Srks, only gets beat by a couple strictly timed crouching normals. Jump-in whiffs if Ryu crouches.

  • A perfectly timed crouching forward or round house will beat your jump-in somehow ; ; Not likely that your opponent will do this though.
    -Stuffs lp Shoryuken. Mp, hp, and EX all get blocked *****Asfddfasdfas has pointed out that reversal SRK’s will hit on aiborne frames so cannot be FADC’d! Only slightly delayed (non-reversal) SRK’s can be FADC’d.
    -Stuffs EX Tatsu
    -Super passes harmlessly under you and your mp connects! Jumping mp is a pretty badass normal, it seems to shrink your hitbox and has fantastic priority.
    -Both Ultras get blocked

Sagat- Very effective, just watch out for full Super meter. Jump-in hits if Sagat crouches.

-Stuffs all Knees
-Lp Tiger Uppercut whiffs, all other TU?s get blocked
-Stuffs hk Super, but lk and mk Super will connect

-Both Ultras get blocked

Sakura- 100% Safe! After a back throw on Sak, sit back and relax, knowing that your j mp can?t go wrong! Jump-in whiffs if Sakura crouches.

-Stuffs all Otoshi?s
-Stuffs all Tatsu?s
-Stuffs normal Shoryukens, EX gets blocked
-Super and Ultra 1 get blocked
-Ultra 2 horizontal (PPP) gets blocked, diagonal (kkk) whiffs

Seth- 100% Safe! Even on bullshit Ultra 1! Hoorah! Option select slide to get in poke range on backwards teleports. Jump-in hits if Seth crouches.

-Stuffs all Sonic Booms
-Stuffs all Tanden Engines
-Stuffs normal Hyakure Kicks, EX Kick gets blocked
-Stuffs lp Shoryuken, all others get blocked
-Stuffs normal SPD?s, EX SPD whiffs.
Vega is a safe distance from all SPDs on landing.
-Stuffs mp and hp Super , lp Super gets blocked
-Both Ultras get blocked

T. Hawk- In this situation, T. Hawk should be thought of exactly like Zangief. Basically you risk an EX SPD if you try this setup while he has meter, but otherwise you’re golden. Jump-in hits if T. Hawk crouches!

-Stuffs normal Mexican Typhoons (SPD), EX SPD will catch you. Like Gief, you are still in range of an lp command grab if T. Hawk just blocks, so either have an airtight followup, or get out of there.
-Stuffs lp Tomahawk Buster (DP), mp and EX are blocked, hp whiffs
-Stuffs all Condor Spires
-Stuffs reversal Super
-Stuffs reversal Ultra 1. I think you can possibly still be Ultra’d after he blocks, if you don’t jump away or do a proper blockstring…not positive on this.
-Ultra 2 whiffs

Vega- 100% Safe! But you are probably better off applying pressure to Vega in other ways, unless he overuses wakeup Scarlet Terrors. Vega has a couple options to escape this setup, aside from the obvious backflips. Option select slide should put you in range to punish backflips. Jump-in whiffs if Vega crouches.

-All Sky High Claws in either direction escape your jump-in. EX SHC away will usually punish an O-S slide as it recovers, toward usually whiffs. Depends on your proximity to the walls.
-Normal Flying Barcelona in either direction escapes, including flying towards the mp! EX FBA in either direction gets stuffed. Huh!? Maybe if you aren?t cancelling from a normal, it?s better to escape a corner with plain FBA rather than EX?
-Stuffs ALL Scarlet Terrors? NO WAY!!! Did anyone see this coming?!
-Super and Ultra 1 both escape your safe jump,
but aren?t going to hit you unless you do something stupid (U1 fwd launcher will get blocked)
-Ultra 2 gets blocked

Zangief- For the most part safe, but only when Gief has no meter, or it?s a free EX SPD! ** With the changes to Lariat in SSF4, you can now safely OS slide (when Gief has no meter) since slide now beats PPP Lariat at closer range.** Jump-in hits if Gief crouches.

-Stuffs KKK lariat, PPP lariat whiffs! I?ve noticed in the past that even without safe jumping, jump mp often beats lariat. Your claw seems to go over Gief?s arms and poke him in the head.
-Stuffs normal Green Hands, EX Green Hand gets blocked for a free punish.
-Stuffs normal SPD?s, but loses to EX SPD. Looks like if Gief blocks the jump-in, he is in range to punish pretty easily with lp SPD if your followup isn?t airtight.
-Stuffs Super and Ultra 1, and you land far enough away to be safe from either one if Gief only blocked your mp.
-Ultra 2 is N/A since it is air activated

I know that’s alot to take in, maybe a little too detailed? Hope the info helps though :bgrin:

reserved…just in case

Nice job, I’m sure once I learn what a safe jump is it will be useful :rofl:

Jumping in without risking a counter.

Nice, I’ll have to try this out.

Man, the one time I OVERthink the meaning of a phrase.

Holy shit Deuy, you the man!
Just to clarify though, the jump foward is right after Vega gets up from the head scissors and the mp really late in the jump? So right before landing…i think i’ve found my 3rd fav. Normal x)

Excellent stuff Duey! I hope more Vegas use this really useful setup.

TBH, I don’t think this is a very good safe jump set up.

“jump in whiffs if crouches” is pretty much the reason why. I mean, if people crouch under, then YOU’RE the one at a disadvantage. it’s only useable or viable against the characters who can’t crouch under it; in which case, it’s hella useful, but so limited otherwise.

Great job, Deuy, this stuff looks very handy.

Question though, did you test if this works on Hakan’s wake-up Guard Position (coward crouch)? If it whiffs, you might be able to o-s a slide to beat him.

Also, did you try the different versions of Makoto’s U2? As in, the different lengths she can cover with it: close, medium distance, far distance?

Joz even though most of the cast can duck your jump-in, very few can actually punish it by doing so. First of all no one ever ducks when I use it, but if they crouch for some reason you aren’t really at a disadvantage. You land in Kara throw/st lk territory and don’t seem to be at any frame disadvantage. If you only use this on the big characters you are seriously missing out on a great tool.

I mentioned this in the old thread but if you find the rare case where someone knows they can crouch under your mp, you can now start to mixup with jumping short instead. This normal has the range to hit a crouching opponent from backthrow distance and is almost impossible to see coming instead of the mp. From a jumpin lk you can still combo into some nice damage like cr. jab/ cr. mp > ex fba, or st lk > whatever. The j short lands you at perfect range for the far st lk to come out.

Still I doubt you’ll be falling back on this against most players, but the crouch thing isn’t as horrible as you might think.

Yes, Hakan’s Guard Position will avoid the mp, but hes stays down forever and it’s easily punished. I didn’t specifically try the slide but I assume that will punish him.

Actually I didn’t test the different ranges for Makoto, forgot about that. If she can aim it at you, you still have plenty of time to block by the time she’s coming at you.

against characters who can crouch the safe jump but who still have relatively slow reversals, i would try doing backthrow -> walk forward ->

the ensures that your opponent can’t crouch your jump-in, and the walk forward ensures that the opponent can’t just walk outside of your range and make it whiff completely

i’ve only tested this safe jump on bison and c.viper so far. the execution was different for both characters

doing it on bison was not too hard. i just had to make sure that i walked forward enough to catch him if he tried walking back. bison has very good walk speed.

against viper, this safe jump seemed a lot more difficult to pull off. i was forced to take a slight step forward after the backthrow to prevent my from whiffing, but if i walked forward too much, i was putting myself into the range of her hp thunder knuckle. it took several tries, but i was finally able to shut down viper’s jump back, walk back, crouch block, as well as make her hp thunder knuckle whiff if she tried it.

(note: you have to be timing your at the proper height in the air. if you do it right, your opponent won’t be able to jump away without getting hit out of the air by your while this does not do much damage, i think it’s better than nothing.)

but yeah, i dunno. i guess i’ve come to the realization that vega’s safe jumps can be really situational and janky, and it can be difficult to just take all of his setups and compile them into one gigantic safe jump compilation thread. this was what i originally planned to do with deuy and jozhear. we were each going to make a thread dealing with:

  1. backthrow to safe jump
  2. izuna drop to to j.hp/hk safe jump
  3. backthrow opponent out of corner to wall jump j.hp safe jump

these three safe jump setups are probably good things to know as a vega player.

but after putting careful thought into it, there are just so many factors to put into consideration when safe jumping with vega that maybe the threads won’t really help all that much. that’s not to say that i won’t go through with them though. if there’s enough demand, i don’t mind.

+1 for yes but if you guys come to the conclusion that it has too many factors to be a viable setup then who am i to disagree ?.?

I think the info is helpful to have. Even if it’s situational for alot of characters there a quite a few characters that are 100% reliable and safe. That alone is worth doing the testing for me.

Also I think people get a little too freaked out by the thought of someone crouching under the safe jump. With the exception of a couple instances like Honda command grab or Akuma’s Super, there is very little risk to getting crouched. You are even in a good position to continue applying pressure or backdash out. 99% of the time if a character is pressing any attack while crouching they will get hit by the safe jump.

The safe jumps are gold if they bait out a whiffed or blocked special or Ultra, and if not (whether because of blocking or crouching) then in most cases you haven’t risked anything.

Tatsu: Instead of the walk fwd could you maybe OS something like cr mk when doing the lk? If they crouch, lk hits. If they try to walk back, cr mk hits or is safe on block?

In regards to this I think we definitely should go ahead with the other safe jumps and a compilation thread, but I don’t reccomend being as thorough as this one was. This was a one-time deal for me, it was a ton of work and I wouldn’t want to do it again :slight_smile:
I think an overview/explaination of the setups and the best/worst situations to use them would suffice.

I have been using this setup for a while now and as of now I do prefer forward throw, although that may change.

@ Tatsu- If you take a tiny step forward, the smallest step you can take then jump HK will hit the opponent whether they are standing, crouching, backdashing, or jumping. This gaurentees a nice combo for like 350 dmg and 505 stun. Only problem is… that some reversals that wouldn’t work would then work. This is a better option than jump lk just for dmg and combo potential and it shares the same negatives.

What I dislike most about the setup is that people can backdash out of it. Like Vega. When I do a back throw though I usually do this safe jump, except for against Adon, dudley, gouken, and a few other situations. They own this safe jump

Those are easily the worst 3 characters to use this on, Guile is pretty bad too. I usually punish backdashers with OS slide.

Deuy, I’m just trying to be a little bit helpful, but Hakan’s Guard Position’s get up can actually go slow, mid, or fast, depending on whether or not you hold the PPP/down (not sure which). Hakan’s GP is also invincible to a lot of things on its first few frames, if I’m not mistake, and the only things that can really hit him are low hitting attacks or grabs. When he get’s up, however, he is completely open to punishment. In general, though, Hakan’s GP is supposedly one of his best tools against Vega, so that is why I am trying to get everyone to know what it is capable of.