New players hurting SF?


#1

To say street fighter isn’t based on its fans is a terrible comment. Capcom has been pumping out SF games for over 20 years now. They listen to what we have to say about their games and what could be improved. The developers over @ capcom unity asked the mvc2 players to figure out all their bugs on their current version for the x360\ps3. They listened to us but us is kinda general, who should us consist of?

This is where the new players get into the picture. Everyone has an opinion about the balance of games, normal sets, hit boxes, option selects etc… However, the newer players out weigh the players with the most knowledge. Whenever I see someone post about execution being too hard or the game needs to be slower or help scrubs MORE, I cringe. Developers\programmers read these posts and then they may bring it up in meeting. 99% of them have probably never been in a tournament scene and they don’t know any better. Its the blind leading the blind.

" well, I was surfing the net today and I saw a bunch of people on srk.com talking about how SF is kinda hard to play. What if we lowered the bar to allow more people to compete? would that result in a product that sells better?"

Its not a big secret that sf4 was purposely watered down AND sold really well.

Prior to the internet being a staple in every home, capcom was just sorta pumping out games and letting the players in the scene give feed back. To be in the scene meant you were in the arcade playing and those were the players being asked questions. It also meant that some scrub who can barely play would never get his voice heard which should be the case. With the internet taking the world by storm, more and more companies are using this to reach EVERY consumer to gain feedback. So that scrub who couldn’t play now has a chance to voice his opinion which should of never been heard in the first place.

Around this time, the games were ALL extremely technical. ST, A2\A3, VS, XvSF I can’t help but think that the internet has gave way to MUCH easier games because of the feed back from newer players.

**are newer players influencing the scene in a bad way? **

newer players don’t have the knowledge that some like valle\choi\watts have but yet IMO, newer players still have a voice. I’m not new school but not old school either. I would prefer it if my voice was silenced if the OG’s would voice more. They may not be 100% right on what they say but their posts will be 10000x more beneficial to developers\programmers IMO. More so than some random scrub complaining about something that doesn’t even matter. You have so many people here who complain about character design in sf4 when there are MUCH bigger problems to be addressed.


#2

TL;DR

I am old new people are scrubs get off my lawn remember the alamo new stuff sucks ST is god tier IMO IMO IMO


#3

Ah good topic of discussion here.

Personally I think more good will come of this than bad. Of these new players, maybe 75% will follow-up 4 with Super, getting better and better as they progress to the new version. Hopefully what this means is that the amount of above-average players who fall into the 'Knowledgeable player" grouping grows exponentially, and with that we usher in more technical games as the 4 series progresses. This would be the perfect world scenario I suppose, hopefully it comes to fruition.

Input shortcuts should be optional IMO, that jsut hurts great players.


#4

ST wasn’t technical at all. It was just very hard. SFIV is far more technical than SFII.

But to answer the question, new players influence the scene in a good way. Without them, there’d be no more fighting games. And from what I can tell, most OG’s don’t really sit around and post on forums. So if newer players don’t post, this place would be dead.


#5

I was under the impression that Capcom just did whatever the fuck they wanted to in the past and that hasn’t changed much since then.


#6

I don’t know why you think this is the case. I’m sure Capcom considers the masses to some extent for every SF title. They saw the masses liking 3D fighters over 2D fighters, and they made Street Fighter EX games. All the OGs hated Alpha 2 Gold and few like Alpha 3. Who says they even consider the OGs gameplay balances?

With SF4, they JUST started accepting fan suggestions, but that totally includes scrubs. If scrubs say a certain move is “unbalanced” and it isn’t, it probably just means its an awkward move that makes the game less fun for everyone. So they might take that out. Also at the bottom line, of the millions of copies SF4 has sold,maybe a few thousand are from the dedicated players. Who should really have more say?


#7

This a thousand times this.

If you are really that hard pressed for an argument, you could say that old players hurts games these days. I remember when a good amount of people were demanding guard crush in SF4 cause Daigo said he liked it.


#8

where were those guys 1999-2008 prior to sf4?

srk.com has kept SF alive the last 10 years. If it weren’t for srk and its dedicated players, there probably wouldn’t have been a sf4. so who gets more say?

the people who revived SF or the people who just picked it up?


#9

<delete>…


#10

the real question is: DOES IT MATTER IF NEW PLAYERS ARE INFLUENCING THE SCENE IN A “BAD” WAY? (whatever the fuck that means)

no, no it does not

people need to cope with the irrelevancy of their old favourite games and move on - either you adapt to the new games, stick with your old games or stop playing all together


#11

Was I supposed to laugh at this? Because I laughed. Lots even. I can’t wait in about 10 years from now, when SF6 is out, how much everyone is going to be defending SSF4EX like it’s their baby and how much it helped the fighting game scene.


#12

Oh shit. :rofl:


#13

Um…ok. I guess ST was clearly just like riding a stick shift car on a straight open lane. Tough to figure out at first if you’ve never done it but after that there’s nothing else to it. Yup.

SFIV does have its technicalities to it but it’s more so on a mind game kind thing. In some ways the technicalities in SFIV are watered down compared to older games. Like how putting offense on your opponent on wake up is reduced to cross ups or option selects to cover yourself for how easy it is for someone to slip an invincible move out on wake up. Lack of stun on block strings also keep people from getting creative with strings and forces them to stick to jabs or risk getting slammed by invincible shit. Things like focus attack and FADC do add new dimensions to the fight that weren’t normally in older SF games but it’s definitely not all for a better game on a technical standpoint either. It’s just all put together to create a SF game that best appeases the scene as a whole. New players get to do free ass shit with easy ass commands and lenient reversal systems and veteran players still have access to footsies and new tools like focus attacks and FADC to turn things around.

You know SFIV is still going somewhat in the right direction though technically if they still complain about the game being hard to play. If the veteran players ever came to a consensus that the game is too easy to play then SF as a competitive game will have failed since it will have lost everything that made SF interesting and stand out from joe shmoe everyone gets their turn video game that’s the big thing now these days. SFIV just gives newer and scrub players just enough incentive to win so that they keep playing even though they are clearly mindset wise leagues under more veteran players.


#14

Are you suggesting that only members of srk should be consider? I can understand fan service but capcom is company first. They can try to appeal to the fans hence their usually loyal, but they need to consider or expanding for profitable means. If they decide to make decision that they think we appeal to the newer generation, its not up to any one to say what they did is good or bad, simply bussiness.


#15

plz read and learn


#16

QFMT!!! If I could put this in my sig I would.


#17

You know, nobody is holding a gun to your head making you play a game you don’t like. If new players voice their opinions and affect the direction of future installments of SF, and you don’t like that direction, why play it? Because there is more competition? Now you’ve learned there are 2 sides to that coin.


#18

funny, i brought this up in irc a few days back, pretty much word for word, and got banned by caliwork. lol

i dont know why its hard to understand.

scrubs will be scrubs, they are the 90 percent that purchase all games because of the name, or how cool it looked. they could care less of anything technical about the game at all.

noobs have to adjust like we all did. noobs dont know shit about shit, past, and barely present, so their opinions matter, but very little.

intermediate and advanced players are the people to listen too, but srk is under this illusion that intermediate and advanced players just want some overly technical game, that is ugly, and not fun, which is far from the truth, and amazingly, the og’s seem to be the ones saying it more then anyone else.

thats all from me. just look forward to a future of slightly off games that could easily be better.


#19

Going backwards is better than moving forwards. Duly noted.

Devil, I agree on some points with you, but what can Capcom really do? Games completely dedicated to the fan as opposed to the customer would never work out, and that shit would fall flat on its face. Making a game unreasonably difficult is what you may call a fucking dumbass move in the market industry.


#20

This post is just made of pure competence I can appreciated and agree.