New sf4 update incoming! get 2 capcom-unity

akuma

#1

as the title says, capcom has confirmed a new update to the sf4 series. they will be opening up suggestion threads for each character. http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/mar/22/capcom-announces-new-update-street-fighter-4-pax-east/
akuma thread opens up from April 12th, 2013 to April 18th, 2013. we need to get there ASAP to beg them to leave akuma alone. people have been calling for akuma’s head on a silver platter since his debut in Super Turbo. Now, with Infiltration destroying pretty much everyone, nerfs are pretty damn near certain unless we do something. DONT ASK FOR BUFFS, THEY WON’T HAPPEN


#2

Well, this will be interesting. I will say however that I have agreed with Akuma’s previous nerfs. They were fair and they brought him into line quite nicely while retaining the core style in this game. I am really at a loss to imagine what they could possibly nerf on him now without damaging him somewhat. I expect quite a few players are thinking along the same lines no matter who they play.

I expect him to receive the SFxT treatment, with nerfs to jump back air fireballs and nerfed teleport recovery. The problem with these changes is that they impact his feel and render him very sluggish, which is never a nice way to cut into a character’s abilities. I also suspect a palm block stun or perhaps recovery nerf is on the horizon combined with an extended hurtbox to his sweep. Justified? Maybe, maybe not. It’s very difficult to speculate on as it requires one to take in the whole scope of the game’s (new) balance.

Another problem I commonly see is that a lot of people irrationally lament Akuma’s ‘overpowered’ ability because they feel a “teleport and an air fireball” and other poorly thought out arguments make a character beyond approach combined with Infiltration dominating the international tournament scene, all the while disregarding his comparable skill with multiple characters, not just Akuma. No Akuma player denies that he is an exceptionally good character, nor do any Akuma players with common sense feel he is deserving of any buffs whatsoever. Akuma is certainly not a ‘pick and win’ character (nor is any character for that matter) and this is reflected in the fact that he is essentially a ghost in many tournament scenes sans Japan and obviously South Korea. He strikes me as an odd character to balance - he has great potential and a great variety of tools, but these abilities teeter on a razor’s edge so far as being effectively put to use without first being wiped out is concerned. Naturally this applies to most, if not all characters; though ask any middle-ground or even advanced Akuma player - it’s not uncommon to see Akuma go down and go down fast despite his impressive arsenal of potential.

If any character is to remain as is, I feel Akuma should be among them. I also feel the same way about Ryu and Ken and now that I’m typing, I feel this way about a LOT of the cast. I’d personally like to see BUFFS to the weaker characters which ought to be an interesting challenge as IV right now is actually very nicely balanced. There’s some interesting balance discussion being held here on SRK in the long running balance thread which contains a lot of well thought out and sensible ideas that I’d like to hope Capcom pay good attention to. Worth noting is that those who have participated in this discussion have not made the common sweeping and emotionally charged statements firebranding Akuma, Fei, Cammy, Seth and so on. Instead the discussion has been broken down into nice detail which is refreshing to see. It’s one thing to cry foul over <insert character> Joe Random loses to every day on XBL while playing with his mates, while it’s another thing entirely to see a character’s strengths broken down and discussed with the larger picture in mind. I hope discussions like that thread receive Capcom’s attention as there’s some fine ideas in there, including negative changes to Akuma and some very insightful views on character abilities (and inabilities) many of us aren’t even aware of.

Still, re: balance I thought along similar lines going into AE 2012 (sans the obvious Yun and Fei domination) and Capcom come out with some very interesting and deserving changes to MANY characters that worked out well. They did however invoke some odd nerfs here and there to characters that I felt were unwarranted - Yang is a great example of this - they effectively removed him from the game for many players who used the character, which sucked to see.

Character revision aside, I’d like to hope we see some interesting system changes perhaps to address goofy unblockables and completely ambiguous nonsense (e.g. ‘hey, I guessed right and blocked <insert whacky 50/50 repeatable setup>’) that doesn’t rob players of a focused and solid play-style, though perhaps this is a fundamental aspect of IV that is difficult to completely eradicate though surface layer balancing. I’d like to see a simple ‘rematch’ option for lobbies and expanded training mode options. It would be cool to have a decent button check applied, offline demo recording and a true tournament ladder mode with double elimination available. An enlarged ‘counter-hit’ indicator (with an audible tone) would be neat and also perhaps a ‘total wins’ counter when playing in lobbies with more than two players among other ideas I feel are feasible with the current assets in the game provided they are happy to invest a minimal of coding time.

We’ll see. I’m interested in this, though like anybody who has a long-stay main, I’m also concerned for any potential nerfs and this applies to everyone whether you use Akuma or Makoto or Dan or whoever. It will be fun though - an official revisit will be refreshing and I’d like to hope Capcom do a nice job. A lot of eyes will be on this project so here’s hoping they deliver an even finer balanced package than 2012 and it would be cool to see some system changes wedged in there for the benefit of everyone irrespective of character choice too. One can only hope!

Over to you, Capcom.

Note to self: Stop posting when charged with coffee, geezus. Sorry for the text wall.


#3

Wow. 99% chance Capcom just fucks it up.


#4

I do agree about the majority of this Gamogo. If someone were to ask me, what I want Akuma to recieve in a new version, I’d have nothing to say, I just can’t think anything to give to him, that would be balanced out and wouldn’t make people hate him even more. Foe example. I don’t like the way his st.HK hit-box is designed, I dunno if it’s intentional or not (I think it’s not, it’s just an odd glitch with the hit-box) that it hits some characters twice, and some only once with the first attack leaving Akuma wide open to a punish. But fixing it and making it hit all characters twice would obviously mean huge pressure buff for Akumas ground game. Fixing it and making it hit all characters once would result in a huge nerf to his ground game. Same with tatsu-sweep.
As for the nerfs that might come, in a form of air-fireball recovery, or teleport recovery, or basically any other nerfs - if they come I think that would be the stupidest decision they ever made and it will probably finally brake Akuma and send him straight to mid tier. Because by the looks of it, Capcom wants to go the ‘give baffs, not nerfs’ route, so it means most of the cast is getting beefed up, and if Akuma is gonna be one of the few to get nerfed (as it happened in 2012), then he’s screwed.

And on that note, I’m actually pretty dissapointed with this decision to make a new version of SF4. Don’t get me wrong, it’s the best fighting game ever as far as I’m concerned, I’ve been playing it for 4 years now and… I’m getting bored, and I think I’m not the only one. Just like Tokido mentioned in one of his recent interviews, people are getting tired of SF4. the game has been out for so long and all this time it was pretty much in the center of the scene, but it’s time for somethin new, new mechanics, characters, engine, etc, and with the next-gen around the corner I was expecting an SF5 announcement sometime soon. It’s even more surprising to me, that they decided to make another version, because 2012 versions seemed pretty balanced for most people. There was probably the richest charater variety in the history of the series for sure, and probably in the history of fighting games as a genre. Just look at top 8 in major international tourneys! We have Guile and Zangief in the top 16 of 25th anniversary, we have Gen winning majors with a dozen people from Japan participating, we have Dhalsims, Kens and etc.
I really thought there was no need for a re-balance, but oh well, I guess I’ll have to wait for SF5 longer then expected, and it’s nice that they’re trying to keep the SF4 series fresh anyway. I do hope we see the next step in this amazing series at least next year :<


#5

Our best hope is for Akuma to be left alone, but that for sure won’t happen looking at how the past revisions worked and specially now that Infiltration has been tearing people apart with him, neglecting the fact that it’s because he’s a Godlike player and not because Akuma is OP or anything like that.

I do not agree with all the nerfs Akuma has gotten so far, specially the forward throw nerf which wasn’t needed AT ALL, but we learned to live with it again and again, hopefully he’ll get through this time around without being finally destroyed, but I seriously have no idea what they’ll nerf next, pretty much everything about him has been nerfed in a way since his broken Vanilla days, enough is enough.

About this whole community input thing for the balance changes, we better hope they won’t take most comments seriously lol, because looking at the scrubs salty tears and cries about Akuma, we can expect him to reach Dan status in v2013 if such thing happened.


#6

What sort of changes will REALLY hurt?
My guess:

x-up tatsu now like evil ryu’s (can’t sweep after)
nerfs to walkspeed
7f sweep (lol @ retarded suggestions)
Evil Ryu and Akuma switch teleports.

I mean everyone is crying bloody murder for Akuma. Either they nerf him (harshly) and:
a. he still stays good
b. a character like Seth/Viper takes his place and the cycle starts over again.

If they are toning down Akuma, it has to be done for all “vortex” characters to an extent. Doesn’t matter to me much personally. Game is old as Gamogo said, and pretty much all my other characters will most likely receive buffs.


#7

Hmmm… which nerfs he will get ?

I can think of 3 things.

  • slow down his walk speed
  • df palm recovery nerf
  • air fb recovery nerf

Teleport recovery was nerfed with super 4 if I remember correctly.

And buffs ? (yeah…really :wink: )

Give him a bit stun damage back and remove the ex tatsu glitch.

Btw: Thanks to Infiltration for make him look so beastly. Now everyone cries for the nerf bat …


#8

I think it would be funny to watch him get nerfed to the point Infiltration moves to another (buffed) character like Gouken, still destroys everyone, and watch everyone claim that character is now S tier. It’s such bullshit.


#9

no no no. dont ask 4 ANY BUFFS. dont even ask to fix the tatsu glitch. akumas a 99.99% lock for nerfs. dont push capcom over by asking for even the smallest buff cuz it wont happen


#10

Any buffs we get will be irrelevant really. "Air ex-tatsu now does 10 more damage"
Joy.


#11

all i can say again is dont ask for buffs. we’ll be lucky to escape without major nerfs


#12

Asking for buffs is irrelevant really, if Capcom is serious about taking in peoples opinions, Akuma is gonna get nerfed. The least we can do is come up with some decent handwriting describing what changes we want to see made and posting it on Capcom-unity. There’s really not much we can do except that. So, I’d suggest if anyone has any good thoughts to write it down here, then we’ll see what we can write. As far as it goes now, no one has a clue abot what to give to Akuma and a firm belief that any nerfs is unnesessary and borderline unacceptable.
Asking to fix the goddamn glitch isn’t asking for buffs either, at least that’s what my common sense tells me. Of course I for some reason (yeah, why I wonder?) immediatly remember the ‘smart idea’ of Capcom to attempt and fix the unblockables by… nerfing forward throw of Akuma. Ofc, instead of fixing youre goddamn glitched out engine u go and nerf the character to hope that that will prevent the exploit from happening. Yeah, a truly smart idea, and look how much it fixed! So there’s a chance that by asking to fix a glitch we’ll get something like ‘range of Ex-tatsu nerfed, so that it won’t work on glitching out characters, enjoy!’ xDDDD


#13

we dont want changes we want capcom not to go near him


#14

That’s true for this state of the game, but considering other people are gonna ask for buffs, it practically means everyone gonna have a face-lift, I don’t think Akuma is gonna stay strong while 99% of the cast is getting beefed up. We don’t know what changes will be made, we don’t know what people are gonna ask, but they sure as hell ain’t gonna be asking for nerfs for their characters. And since Capcom has officially claimed that it WILL listen to people requests, u can bet that they gonna go the ‘more buffs, less nerfs’ path. So implying that Akuma shouldn’t get any changes might actually make him a much weaker character in the new version. Just a thought.


#15

k then fix tatsu glitch. i cant hit c.lp, c.lp, c.mp, ex tatsu on a crouching cody is that supposed to happen or is that glitch as well?


#16

Don’t know, if u hit him with the initial hits of the tatsu, and then midway, the tatsu stops hitting him and insteand of flying off to the other side of the screen he ends up standing near you as if nothing happened- then that’s a glitch. Same as with Sakura.


#17

then its not a glitch. tatsu never hits him


#18

I think we should come up with a list of buffs IF Capcom insists on changing Akuma’s play style and nerf him. We can post on Capcom Unity asking for Akuma to remain unchanged which is what most of us here want, but suggest a few buffs if they MUST nerf him in some way like removing the Vortex completely or anything drastic like that.

Such as:

  • More hitstun on cr.mk so cancelling it into a fireball will be more reliable from further ranges
  • Buff Shakunetsu stun
  • Reduce far standing heavy kick startup to 7 frames BUT nerf far standing jab frame advantage from +7 to +6 so the Vanilla SF4 loop will still be gone but fireball FADC fs.hk combos will be back and reliable again.
  • Slightly faster BACKWARD movement speed, he’s not the fastest at that unlike forward movement (wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Universal_Abilities#Walk_Speed_Comparison)
  • Faster dash
  • First hit of MP SRK knocks down, will make it a more reliable anti air.
  • Far fierce becomes a command normal (forward + HP), that will help using close fierce more often for combos that push you a bit away (e.g cr.lp, cr.lp, st.hp xx fireball) specially vs characters with weird hitboxes like Hakan. It can also be used to frame trap from close ranges!

Will post more later if I thought of anything else.

Akuma has always been a glass canon, so IMO any health or stun rating buff shouldn’t be requested at all. If someone wants regular health, play Ryu, Akuma is supposed to have above average and excellent tools because he has very low 850 health (2nd lowest after Seth’s 800) and 850 Stun (Lowest in the game, even Seth has 900).

Also, obviously I don’t want ALL of those changes lol, just a few for Capcom to consider instead of hammering Akuma with the nerf bat and giving us a completely WORTHLESS buff like the EX DF into EX air fireballs.


It's official: SSF4 AE 2013 is gonna happen!
#19

Guys I have a feeling this is going to be really bad unless we all collectively contribute to the upcoming Capcom balance change thread.

We’re going to have muppets having a sook left right and centre.
Oh Akuma has the vortex, oh he has air fireball, oh he has a 3 frame DP, he has the best teleport in the game, oh INFILITRATION etc etc.

This is the biggest bullshit the game was fine as it is. What are they going to do? People are actually asking for shit like ‘remove demon flip grab’. GG to us.

If Capcom nerf him really bad I’m not buying this shitty DLC update or playing the game again.


#20

Will this be a paid update? They better not even think about that if it’s only a balance patch, so much greed these days.

Also, even though I’ll contribute to the Capcom Unity thread when Akuma’s feedback time is up, I have absolutely ZERO faith in Capcom, I got burnt too many times to not learn my lesson by now, I don’t think there’s anything they’ll do that I won’t expect, don’t be surprised if they removed the entire demon flips if Capcom took the scrubs seriously lol.

Stuff that could potentially be nerfed:

  • Demon flip Palm, additional recovery on whiff, scrubs for some reason aren’t aware that this has the 4f recovery landing frames like normal jump ins, they actually think it’s 0 frames and can safejump 3f DPs :expressionless:
  • Palm could lose armor breaking property and given to tatsu like the other shotos, this will fuck up quite a bit of his matchups real hard like Balrog.
  • Air fireball nerf, anything from height restriction, recovery or altering how it’s used defensively with neutral or back jumps, since according to scrubs this creates an impenetrable wall.
  • Major nerf to some of his mixups, like x-up tatsu > sweep won’t work or coming up with a way to nerf DF grab, because as you guys know, vortex = free win in AE.
  • Far roundhouse 2nd hit will whiff on everyone, this will also fuck up up some matchup real bad.
    …etc

In other words, Dan will beat Akuma 9-1 in V2013 lol