New to Hakan ... help appreciated ^__^

hakan

#1

hey everyone … i started playing hakan for a while now and i was wondering if you guys could help me out with a few things regarding the character ( yes i have done enough searches in the forums so apologies in advance if i missed out on any of the old answers if the questions were asked before)

  1. does anyone know any setups for a relatively “safe” oil slide ? meaning where hakan would be at 0 frames or even at + frames ? is that even possible ?

  2. im aware of most of the garanteed oil dive setups utilizing fuzzy guard on either wakeup or reset … but for some reason i noticed that most setups dont work on the new cast (mainly yun, yang, and oni) … any specific setups for them ?

  3. any specific strategies on the yun matchup ? ( how to deal with dives, the dos and donts in that matchup … etc) … i feel like hakan stragely has an edge in this matchup … but i feel like im not yet experienced enough with him to tap onto that potential … (its a much easier matchup with him than with sim … of that much i am certain lol )

  4. being a dhalsim/juri main i know quite abit about how horrible those matchups can be… what other matchups does a hakan player need to look out for ? whats even ? whats hard in your opinions and why ? i dont look at tier lists nor am i interested in them …

  5. anyone have a list of what coward crouch can save u from ? which moves whiff, which dont ? which can be punished after it ? etc ? … this includes the new matchups (yun , yang , e.ryu, oni)

thats all i can think of for now … and i really appreciate the help …
hakan is still a work in progress for me … and i feel like alot of people are sleeping on him … i feel like the buffs he recieved make him a much better contender than what people think … and hopefully with time … if i feel like ive reached a certain level with him i might consider working on some tutorials for him like what i did with juri … exploring some specific topics …

just make sure to put the number next to ur answer … (just to make it easier to follow )

many thanks :slight_smile:


#2

Hey, good to see you on here, and trying out Hakan aswell!

I’ll give this a go, hopefully some other kind folks can put some input in aswell

  1. Yeah, there’s a ton. One thing with AE is that lp slide was given a faster startup, meaning a lot of the setups using it didn’t work. You can find a bunch on this website, it’s based on super but a little messing in training can help you figure them out http://www.hitcombo.com/1news/hakan-oil-ceo/

  2. Sadly the oil dive setups dont work on yun/yang boo…but the same rules apply to oni and e.ryu as for everyone else. The characters they never work on are, blanka, cammy, dhalsim, honda, yun, yang…might be one more cant remember

  3. Yuns annoying…but I think you can make it really difficult for him. You need to disrespect him and not feel afraid to SPD if you feel the divekick is unsafe. If he’s getting grabbed he’ll want to jump/divekick spam, so you can put airgrab to good use. Not the greatest advice i know but im no expert on the match. Liquigen probably knows it best maybe he can give you some help. You can use cr.mp against divekicks aswell when spacing against him.

  4. I think Hakan can beat anyone without struggling too much, but my least favourite matchups are Honda, probably Hawk and Gief. You can do well against Gief…but Gief, he just scares me. Haha. The knockdown thing leaving him probably aids you, cos if you choose ultra 1 he has to be REAL careful when he’s going for green hand mixups

  5. Coward crouch is great. In the video thread theres a guy called Datui fighting a guy player; he uses CC to hide under the elbow drop, and goes into ultra 1. Pretty sweet. Coward crouch is godlike against Fei. It will go under Chicken wings and you can punish with slide, lk oil dive, cr.mk. You can do it against viper burn kicks aswell, there’s actually a CC thread round here listing everything it works against, need to find it.

The tutorial thing sounds great…I’ve been wanting to do one for a while, but unfortunately don’t have the equipment to do a decent quality one, which is a shame. Anyway yeah, hope this info helps you out a little


#3

Hello & welcome! yeah it’s cluttered up everywhere quite hard to get to where you want just by using the search function. I won’t be able to help with everything you want to know but I’ll share what I know, I hope more people will add up to this.

  1. about full screen away from opponent something like 2 steps from left most screen frame if youre player 1 if you do hp slide + follow up if the opp doesn’t expect it or late input will mostly eat throw or grab but if they know what you will do they’d shoryu or jump or backdash or throw you so take into consideration. mp, ex, lp is really hard to instruct from both enemy standing position as you need some positioning like after you land slide-press as your cue to what options you have. And mind you that every slides will travel w 2 different ranges (with n without additional input) now I dunno if the k follow up will affect the lp-mp-hp slide but the oiled exp one will cause hakan to do shorter slide and lose invincibility to fireball.

I think the solution for safe slides will be the ‘post slide-press’. So after you land slide and press, do fwd dash and I usually input followed up mp slide. But each character has different wake up timing, dhalsim has slower wake up so probably you need hp wake up slide.
after slide press (works in arcade edition only) backdash once (unoiled) and lp slide follow up. After c.HK sweep, do unfollowed up lp slide*
*now this one is tricky if you sweep quite far away you will need to input additional lp for just a few cm more distance so i think you need to get the feeling right.

  1. blanka, honda, yang, dhalsim has quite a weird wake up, mordiekai the master of dives will be able to help you lol, I think you should message him or ask him directly lol. Blanka and honda can crouch right away after waking up so your dive misses. Dhalsim weird wake up timing but you can still catch him if you got the timing down… and yang if left on neutral (as of now: AE ed w/o patch) will stay on his invincible frames - which means not hugable lol. Dunno bout Oni & E.ryu i think they work ok, but i don’t incorporate every single oil dive set up to my play style someone more knowledgeable will be able to enlighten you on this issue.

  2. vertical jump to try and catch his dive kicks. or back jump and mk (early) if theyre not too close. I think liquigen if I’m not mistaken in video thread said something about countering dive kicks with c.mp i’m not sure about the timing, i think you should watch some video he uploaded. From my experience if you anticipate incoming EX punch (what’s yun’s qcf + p called?) and want to crash it head to head use lp slide or mp slide. HP will get hit and ex i think will pass thru if I’m not mistaken. His stupid double palm push move has projectile property in case you don’t know, so EX slide is the answer to beat it. Watch the oil up time he can poke you anytime long distance.

  3. juri, watch it when she start jumpin around her immediate overhead from j. hp i think is dangerous and will strip you of your guards if you low guarding. I guess if she abuses pinwheel all you can do is block. Someone says in other thread you can actually intercept after the move is finished w c. lp or f.lk xx slide but timing must be really precise.
    Dhalsim. I guess you have to watch the play style. If he stays far away he will most likely use HP to poke you full screen-ish what I usually do is I try to get the rhythm and put some oil and f. mk counter poke in between. You have to watch where his knuckles are when extended. If he jumps back and hp, which most dhalsim will do anticipate where his hands will come down and do j. hk if he “punched” your feet it will surely stuff it. Also if you jump over his fireball input in Mk if he likes to use hk or mk to poke you in mid jump. If you’re oiled and sim is cautious and start throwing fireballs absorb the ball w focus or mix in w back jump cause if he’s afraid to get in frontally he will teleport. Once you see tele animation put in pokes just in case he tele close to you.

  4. Situational, this is hard to say. I find CC very useful against fireball spammers if you want to make them come to you just cc every single one they will come to you, just make sure you have life lead or else they will be happily continuing the spamming and wait for Time out. I personally use CC for shenanigans or to duck from jump in -> u1 or cc from vega’s (claw) barcelona attack and then grab if youre oiled. Other than that… well… will keep you safe from SRKs if the range is right, too close and youll get hit. not safe from throw (command and normal), not safe from sweep also. Also i use it to make ibuki’s stomp whiff or bison’s head stomp whiff. Don’t use it to avoid dive kicks, will recover late and eat punishment.

Check chron’s match up thread it helps alot what to do and not to do. It’s stickied now. Also learn to parry (FADC) and the timing to his anti airs. Also 3 most important things w hakan. Stay grounded, stay oiled (whenever possible), be conservative w jumps unless you know what to do. Good luck mister! :sunglasses:


#4

thanks alot you guys … this is very helpful … ofcourse any more input from the rest is highly appreciated as well …

http://www.hitcombo.com/1news/hakan-oil-ceo/ <<< has anyone bothered to translate this ? the content here seems gold …

i kind of discovered cr.MP as an anti dive kick vs. yun while playing myself … but like every character out there … because the dives can be slightly delayed … theres inconsistency … (going to do more lab tests … )

as for bad matchups … i can see how e.honda can be a major pain … although like i said my hakan is still a work in progress …so hopefully with time ill be able to give out more input on matchups as i go along … :slight_smile:

i still feel like the characters with the most threat are the ones that prevent hakan from oiling … atleast thats what im finding most limiting … namely

  • dudley (instant machinegunblow on reaction)
  • juri (free dive kick)
  • dhalsim ( poke hell)
  • seth ( wall jump into beefy combo)
  • makoto …( although not so bad from the right range) …
  • honda ( EX headbutt) … etc
    ofcourse im assuming with more experience i can figure out when oil can be safely done in these matchups … (LK oil at least)… this is not including the knockdown oil ups …

while playing vs a fuerte today i realized that coward crouch helped eliminate so many of his options … also it felt like i also had time to follow up …( will explore more on that in the future as well )… i can see how it would mess up guy’s game as well because when using juri her cr.MK pushes her hitbox low enough to make everything he does whiff … so im assuming its the same concept …

im finding that the meter building using dive,cc,dive,cc etc… is very effective in that aspect too and it frustrates the opponent when they notice the meter build …

i still need to explore more safe slide setups …( either having meaty wakeup slides for the frame advantage or having slides recover just in the frame of wake up to bait out a reversal … more like a safe jump but in slide form ) … ofcourse your help is highly appreciated and i will share my findings as i go along as well

the reason im mostly interested in safe slides is that i feel hakan really doesnt have much to go with … (no overhead , no invincible reversals , poor wakeup ) … but he makes up for it with strange gimmicks and the high damage output. :slight_smile: … plus with oil hes just … a beast (BEST BACKDASH EVAR!! … LOL ) !!

i also did not know that pressing the followup forces a longer slide range even on block … (this seems very useful) i wonder what effects it has on block stun … need to test more things out …

thanks alot you guys … will update my progress as i discover things …


#5

If I remember correctly, after MP Oil Rocket, you can do a MP slide afterward. So far, it’s safe from those pesky 3-frame reversal shoryukens that blow-up Hakan’s mix up game. Also, practice FADC blocked slides, but it’s important not to press any followup when sliding. If you press anything, Hakan is stuck sliding and cannot FADC to safety.

In fact, just go to 9:29 of the video. It has plenty of the safe slide info you need.


#6

I’m fairly new to hakan as well, and all I can say is oil up as much as you can, when you can. Take advantage of ae hakan’s follow up oil after slide, I swear by it the developers wanted people to see the wrath unleashed once hakan is oiled up. Dive kicks can become free oil slides against yun or yang if you practice fadnc. I recommend using the cr.lp to lp oil slide after backdash fadnc. It comes it quick and will usually eff anyone up that tries to jump in at you. In theory you should be able to combo into it the oil slide thanks to his toward+lk >> oil slide. It is possible to do an 7 to 8 hit cmbo wih hakan (I’m pretty sure I did I to yun in training mode, not sure if its char specific) and its lk lp lp lk lp toward+lk then oil slide followed by body press or oil shower if you please. Also a few things I found in training room that I found to be pretty awesome:

For unoiled hakan: mk followed immediately by oil rocket can help you start off the oil carnage. Its the only move I tested in training room that dosent wiff the oil rocket. It should be fast enough to catch your opponent off gaurd. Cr.lk also works too, but you have to be very close, like if the guy drops his combo you can punish with cr.lk then oil rocket.

For oiled hakan: toward+lp followed by oil rocket, you can combo into it and if they block or get hit, they still get caught because of his grab range. And toward+lp has amazing range. I thought toward+lp was completely useless until I found out that it dosent wiff the oil rocket and you can scare the guy into blocking to set him up. Try it out for yourself :slight_smile:

Toward+mk: this is awesome as hell when you follow it up with oil rocket. It also dosent wiff after oil rocket, hit or blocked and has amazing range. I also thought this move wasn’t as good till I discovered it. Great for poking.

Toward+hp: good pressure and you know what else?? You can follow it up with OIL ROCKET!! If you see them crouch blocking get close enough to do the toward+hp then oil rocket him away. On hit or block the oil rocket dosent wiff, very awesome. You can’t be too far out though, but you don’t necessarily have to be right in his face either.

Cr.lk x 2 followed by oil rocket: I’m sure you notice that you can combo the cr. Lk consecutively when your oiled. So when your opponet puts pressure on you and you sneak in a cr.lk, follow that baby up with an oil rocket and give yourself a nice oily shower. In close range, any oil rocket after 2 cr.lk usually wiffs.

However, most of these stratagies rely on anticipating your opponent to crouch block after getting hit. Which is usually 90% of the time since no one really thinks hakan can do crap anyway :slight_smile: button mashers/dp mashers MIGHT mess this up, but we all know how to punish those right??

And for FADNC tips:

I find that I usually get countered in close range if I try to follow up any fadnc with hp or hk, so I usually stick with lk and lp and try to pull off combos from there. But one thing I try to do for jump ins is focus attack back dash normal cancel into crouch hard kick. It seems deadly. you can also mess up dhalsim if you fa his HP and follow up with a toward+hk. If your quick enough you can knock him down before his hands return to him, allowing you to get in and do damage. I’m also experimenting with c vipers flame kick, since you can absorb that as well.

Hakan should be played to the point where people fear him when he’s oiled up, making them back off and turtle, giving you more time to oil up, then going in for more oil rocket set ups while they cower in fear. Its all about the mind games with hakan… well that’s what I think at least.


#7

great stuff you guys !! … i had a bit of time in the lab today … i found out some safe slider setups.
after a few testing … i dont think you can put hakan at any plus frames (i could be wrong) … but all the following setups put him at 0 … which is good enough i suppose … none of these put him on minus frames…

  • safe (ON BLOCK) slider setups:
    (dry) after body press, backdash, LP slider
    (dry or oil) backthrow, tap < once, HP slider (needs to be mid screen)
    (dry or oil) throw, cr.MK (whiff), HP slider (even works in corner)
    (dry or oil) 360+HP, cr.LP (whiff), LP slider (even works in corner)
    (dry) 360+LP, cr.LP (whiff), cr.LP (whiff), HP slider (needs to be mid screen)

ill try MP slider after 360+MP … (although personally i dont see any use for MP rocket … LP is good for distance for oiling and HP is good for damage and close range followup … at least thats what i think… lack of hakan experience might prove me wrong in the future)

keep up the great advice you guys …
i still need to get the hang of FADNC … is there a way to acctually to it more consistently or do i just have to be fast?


#8

Back dash > LP slide after body press is the one I use most often, as it’s pretty deadly to mix up with SS dive. Otherwise I’ve found that doing raw meaty slides (ew) is incredibly useful as opposed to plain set ups. But + frame safe slides are most definitely possible. I know for a fact that his regular SPDs can be made to whiff completely (so, +2/3?)

As far as MP slide goes, it’s not too useful for much, but I’m pretty sure it has a pretty good hurtbox/range combination to punish projectiles without oil/meter.


#9

sorry i meant i didnt find MP oil rocket useful … MP slider deffinately has uses … for one its a range thing for i assume other setups … i re-edited my previous post … sorry again …


#10

There’s some nice Oil dive setups after MP rocket, more so than the lp one. I’ll always either use mp, hp, or ex rocket. MP still gets you a HK oil when lp would, does more damage…has better setups afterwards.


#11

like i said … i still dont know hakan very well … i love all the little gimmicks he has … and it seems like he relies on them alot … i need to explore things more … is the opponents wakeup different between MP and HP to get away with oiling with HK ?


#12

Check this vid by Mordie Kai here for some nice set ups off mp.rocket: http://www.youtube.com/user/namordecai#p/u/4/hsKC-6xqCwI

There’s alot more stuff on his channel that’s worth checking out. Also check the SS Dive Compendium thread. I’ve found however alot of these set ups are more difficult now due to the changes to Hakan’s directional input window in AE.

Edit:
Also oiled mp.rocket > f.dash > f.jump mk is safe from 3 frame reversals(I think it works dry as well?).

Wake up is definitely different for each oil rocket and personally I find it risky using even mp.oil after mp.rocket but I’d trust Drew’s advice over mine(may be it’s safe with correct timing or against certain characters?).


#13

Hey y’all, I didn’t want to make a whole new thread, so I figured I’d piggyback on another noob thread.

I’ve been watching Hakan videos after deciding I wanted to learn a second character (I mainly play Juri) and I just wanted to ask about Hakan’s execution level. Seems from the talk he has a fairly high barrier for doing well. I’m not a high execution style player, so would Hakan be a waste of time?I’m drawn to him because I like playing oddball characters.

Really, I ask because I’m just terrible at this game, but I enjoy playing it. I’ve messed around with him in training a little, but that’s a whole different beast from really knowing anything. Figured I’d ask The Pro’s.


#14

His advanced techniques require good execution but outside of those he has pretty simple grappler/footsy gameplay and you can do very well just by playing a strong fundamentals game.

I’d say that the most difficult part of learning hakan is the sheer amount of wakeup setups there are to memorize. Ideally you want a slide, oil dive and crossup safejump setup for each kind of knock down hakan can score. Then there are character specific and alternate setups on top of that. The volume of information that starts stacking up can get a bit overwhelming.


#15

Gotcha.

I’ll try and roll with him for a month or so to see what shakes out.
I’m sure I’ll be back, heh.

Thanks.


#16

LET THE HAKAN ARMY GROW !! LOL
when it comes to excecution … there are just a few little bits n pieces that can be annoying …
when you do qcf for oil slide … make sure you end it with towards … and not diagonal (up towards) … especially when you want to do it after a jump back … because the computer seems to register it as an oil rocket shortcut…

the other one is mixing up oiling with diving … (also seems to be most annoying when doing a jump back) … for oiling up go for the shortcut (diagonal df x 2 + k) … that avoids getting oil dive …

one more thing that i found helpful was making sure i do my 360s in reverse … from front to diagonal up back … that way i wouldnt confuse the input of grabbing with other things when i needed it …

i hope you find this helpful …
after SVB i plan to take hakan a bit more seriously :D… hes showing alot of promise vs yun … a matchup i dont particularly enjoy … >__>


#17

Yeah, I started using him yesterday on XBLA in a lobby of friends and the first match I played was against a Yun who I just demolished. His standing hp (I think - the tomahawk chop one) is like my favorite normal ever. I just need to learn the proper times to oil up, some longer block strings and I think I’ll do just fine with him.

Thanks for the encouragement.


#18

wow you guys are picking up lots of good stuffs, you all got potential and I like that! Will definitely grow better than my hakan :frowning: Don’t get me wrong im a noob meself.

I noticed something small lately as I start to master the jab timings (still not smooth and inconsistent though) when im oiled i love to brave myself and DNC to jabs followed by more HP fwd dnc or when unoiled just the standing HP. Hakan’s chop goes all the way down to almost ground level in arc motion I caught some ppl’s trying to counterpoke me with crouching moves like shoto’s C.mk after 3 jabs followed by f.lp. So i start to have confidence in throwing that into the string. Just have to watch for DP masher i guess. Oh also within that range if they get heated and try to jump in the hp arc will cover that air space above you this was and still is my problem ppl jumpin in on me and often my anti air move got beaten.


#19

hey samurai drew ! it was nice meeting you at SVB … amazing hakan by the way … really inspiring ! well now that svb is almost done … time to start my own journey of oil !!!


#20

Hey, it was good meeting you aswell! Glad you got to see some of my matches! The atmosphere was really good. Shame how i went out but what can you do. Really glad you’re going to main hakan now.