I played a ton of fighting games in the 90’s, veering from Street Fighter 2 into Neo*Geo territory. I picked up a copy of Super Street Fighter 4 last week, and I’ve played around with it a bit.
Previously, I’ve been more of a Ken player - probably leaning very heavily on Shoryuken priority and aggression. I’d like to see about picking up a new character, and I think Gouken has a lot of neat things going for him. Aside from a nice character design, I like what I’ve seen in playing around with him. (His counters and the demon-flip seem like some nice tools to keep people honest.)
Where would you guys recommend starting? I know I’ve had some trouble with some of the combos in the Trial mode - I have no idea what the timing or position required for them could be. I haven’t spent any serious time with a fighter for a decade.
It sounds like you are a loyal gamer with an affinity for good shit. If you’re an og gamer and played since sf2 or fighting street aka street fighter throw your chips on Goke Diesel…most misrepresented misunderstood…gouken will be the guy people are gonna barely start to use in 2years from now
Honestly, the way I started with Gouken back in vanilla SF4 days is to practice with your opponent in the corner. Start off with simple combos and add more moves to it as you get comfortable with the timings. For example, EX Palm --> hp Hadouken —> Ultra 1 is a great starting place.
Then you can add j.hp --> s.hp --> Ex Palm —> hp. Hadouken —> Ex Hadouken —> Ultra 1. Most of what Gouken has is set up off of HP and EX Palm.
You really shouldn’t add in the single hadoukens in those combos, they actually cause the combo to do less damage compared to a straight up U1. EX does increase the damage though. I usually just add singles when going for the sweep or reset finisher.
indeed. going for max damage with reasonable execution and no ex is jf.mp, mk.tatsu. With ex, you do the jf.mp, ex.tatsu. But you generally want to keep your offense going with jf.mp, cr.hk, jump/flip shenanigans, or a jf.mp, cr.fp > flip shenanigans. The only reason to do hk.tatsu is in horrible lag where jf.mp is unreliable.
Thats actually really true, the thing is I didn’t know about safe jumping until very recently thanks to iamthatiam. So that will definitely change up the way I play quite a bit and give back some of the mix up that was lost when they took away the overhead demon flip option. But you can’t argue that the combo certainly doesn’t look flashy though, haha.
Oh that it does, but when I want flash I go HP Hadou, EX Hadou(unless it’s Ryu), Ultra, especially if its the last round and he has little health^^ (I remember trying to get a tatsu FADC in there as well, but can’t recall if the U1 still juggles after that, iirc a 2nd Tatsu will whiff due to too many juggles. Hmmm, wish I remembered the details)
Working in Ultras is definitely something I need to work on. Trial mode was good enough to show that the the Super can combo off the back-throw, or super-cancel out of the sliding palm. Are there any good Ultra-cancels to watch for? Some experimentation in Training Mode showed me that the back-throw is my friend there as well.
I also need to work in EX moves more often. If I have no idea if someone will attack high or low, I might throw an EX counter out there to catch them. I’ve tried the EX demon-flip some as well, but not to good results.
Okay, I’m behind on some language too. Does ‘sweep’ just refer to a foot-sweep? I have no idea with the reset finisher is.
I’m trying to figure out what best to catch someone with after a back-throw. I was surprised to see that it doesn’t do any damage itself.
I’ll have to try to play around with that. I like the look of Gouken’s tatsu.
It was referenced above, as well as here - and I think I’ve seen it elsewhere in the forum - but what is ‘safe jumping’? I know that I tend to take to the air a lot, so with Gouken I’m trying to use his flip tricks to mix things up. I know that pressing a punch in mid-flip will cancel the landing foot-sweep and give you a single hit of super-armor. Is that a safe-jump?
My next direct question is, what does Gouken have for ‘punishment’ situations? (IE, someone just whiffed their Ultra/Super, you blocked a dragon-punch, etc. Just looking for a reliable moderate combo to capitalize on those situations.
Thanks again to everyone who’s responded. The more I play around with him, the more I really like Gouken.
My advice learn Ryu and/or Chun Li first. I was never a serious SF player when I was younger (just beat friends on SNES) so I never really learned fundamental skills like footsies, links and basic zoning. In vanilla, I used Gouken and Seth, which are characters that kinda bypass those skills so when I would try to use other characters, I was pretty awful. Ryu and Chun can help teach you those basic skills that will help you when you eventually pick your main. For the last few weeks I’ve been working on using Ryu and it has made me a better player all around. I now feel much more comfortable fighting in close quarters with Gouken.
ryu is not a good character to learn basic defense with.
he reduces most defensive situations to : "to uppercut or not to uppercut."
you probably increased in skill by playing more, not because you played ryu.
You should check the back-throw guide, there are a lot options and variations off the back throw. I DO think empty Backthrow should net some damage. Even if it was 150 Damage and 150 Stun it, would be good to use for Denjin Set ups, but that’s more wishful thinking on my part. I would prefer it to be 100 Damage and 200 stun though. LOL
If you want to learn the basics of the game i’d say pick a fireball character and a non fireball character to get started with. I’d say Ken and Fei Long / Guy. Ken - b/c you won’t rely on an instant start up and recovery fireball, but you’ll still learn the properties and rules to the srk. Fei Long / Guy will both help you improve your footsie game especially against non fireball characters and command grabbers.
This is a very good approach to learning all the basics of the game. I started playing with Street Fighter III: Third Strike and the first character I learned was Akuma. I then moved on to learn Dudley and from those two characters I was able to develop a play style. Its important to realize that with Gouken his fireballs serve a different purpose than other projectile characters and should be used only to space and create options for combos. I personally feel like empty back throw not doing any damage is acceptable because of the amount of damage that is possible if you follow a back throw up properly, it seems like a pretty fair trade in my opinion.
I’m still very new to the concept of safe jumping but I have been doing a basic version of it for a while, its essentially setting up a safe demon flip after you knock your opponent down. There are some threads dedicated to it on here under the Gouken tab although they apply to the first Street Fighter 4 and some of the stuff thats discussed there doesn’t apply anymore.
As far as punishing whiffed moves, it really depends on the situation, if you have ultra then definitely use that, either just using it if it will hit or back throwing into it, but you have to be careful for a throw tech as Gouken’s window for that is pretty large. If not then I typically s.hp into ex palm dash forward hk. tatsu. There are more options once you learn safe jumping but that is a pretty basic combo that will net you a fair amount of damage and stun.
I got the feeling that Gouken’s fireballs were mainly for a bit of a zoning game - if someone’s taking to the air too much, it’s a nice tool. I don’t tend to try to start hadouken-wars. (But then again, I’ve never been anything more than an amateur, so I’m not sure if I know the ‘purpose’ of Ryu/Ken’s fireballs short of either damage, or trying to bait a jump out of someone.)
I’ll need to find those threads. By a ‘safe’ demon-flip, do you mean demon-flip + punch for the one-hit parry?
I’ll need to see if I can play around with the combo you suggested. I definitely get the point of the EX-palm as a launcher. I need to get better about dashing though. I think it’s one of the options I don’t recall often enough.
Ken’s been my go-to Street Fighter character for awhile. My biggest concern with trying to use him to learn fundamentals is the likelihood of bad habits resurfacing. (Taking to the air too much is one of the biggies.) I think I’ve got a fair handle on the srk - or at least a layman’s handle.
Amusingly, one of my better friends plays a lot of Guy. I introduced him to fighters, and don’t think I’ve reliably provided him a challenge since that first day. He’s a frequent sparring partner, and one of the chief reasons I’d like to get a bit better.
I’m getting ready to see about practicing some. Thanks again for the input/help!