Newbie Guile habits

guile

#1

Okay, I am not a top 8 evo qualifier, and I think I’m just your average player. I mean I hold my own against good players and all, but yeah, I probably don’t have the credentials to make such a thread. But since I came up with this idea, and I felt it is important to address, I felt I had to make it. Plus I’ve been a Guile player for almost 16 years, and this version of Guile really isn’t totally different from the same core Guile I played in HF.

With all the new bandwagoners testing out Guile, I’ve noticed a lot of people just play him wrong. And I noticed a common thread with bad habits from newer Guile players. I decided to make this thread because I too made a lot of the same mistakes many of which I have just recently amended in vanilla (with a weaker Guile forcing me to break a lot of bad habits). Hopefully with this to everyones attention we will see more solid Guile players on PSN, XBL, at offline local tournaments, and at majors.

*Bad Habits:
*
cr.HK repeatedly:

When you get ultra newbie Guiles this become pretty much their goto poke. It’s a bad move period. It can be blocked on reaction, is relatively unsafe on block, and can be interrupted after the first hit by too many things. Many Guile players do this on wakeup, after jab block strings, and some just throw it out randomly.

This has to be the first bad habit newbie Guiles break, or you future as a Guile player will be bleak. The best way to break this in my opinion is to block more, and stop worrying about twitching on wakeup. Or start to use safer low attacks like cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mk. After this you’ll learn to abuse st.FP and you’ll never think of using this awful move again.

This move does have it’s uses, but they are advance uses. Generally during footsies, it’s really good for whiff punishment of laggy low attacks, or missed standing attacks. But until you get familar with footsies, just force yourself to never use this again.

** Wakeup flashkick:**

Again a bad habit I had for a long long time. As i was telling Chowwun, I just broke this towards the end of vanilla. We do this for the same reason people love to do it with other characters. We simplly don’t want to throw our momentum. Unfortunately, we will inevitably have to block because missed flashkicks are subject to fat combo punishments. And then we are left being knocked down again, and possible find ourselves in a dizzy situation.

This is a judgment call, as it’s not a completely bad idea. You have to mixup your defense. When someone does a block string, or setup a tick throw, just block and tech. do it about 3 or 4 times, and many people will actually jump at you themselves. I found that even really good balrogs tend to do this. They’ll have me locked down, I’ll tech their throws and block their stuff. And then by habit they’ll jump, and I’ll whip out that flash kick on them. Just get a feel of when you can and can’t do it. But as a good way to break it, just focus more on your blocking and throw breaking.

** Pursuing grounded opponents with slow moves:**

Yeah, I made this mistake Saturday night. I played a guy using Guy, and I kncoked him down. I tried to do a cr.mk as he was waking up and I ate a wakeup ultra. Again Marn at Final Round in casuals I tried to cr.mp his Viper on wakeup, and he did a wakup ultra and killed me in a match I pretty much had won.

I see a lot of newer players getting greedy, and trying to do pokes on downed opponents. Meaties are better in Super than they were in vanilla, but they still aren’t that good, and Guile doesn’t have many good meaties anyway. Basically on wakup, just use this as an opportunity to bait, and if you want to pressure your opponent as they wakeup, wait till they stand, and try out a block string. Don’t hog them on wakeup, because you can very well regret it. I could have had the honor of saying I beat Marn (albeit in casuals) on two occasions at that, and I blew both matches by doing this. Patience is key with Guile, so curb that greed.

walk back after sonic boom:

Really bad habit. Terribly bad habit at that. Not only can’t you throw sonic booms that fast by walking back, but you also back yourself into a corner for free. There is no way you can keep up a zoning game versus shotos or Sagat doing this. It’s a terribly bad habit that has to be broke immediately, as Guile simply can’t work like this.

Gilley has a tutorial on charge buffering, or pre-charing (as he calls it). [media=youtube]mARorBkHxt0[/media] Get in the habit of charging sonic booms this way, and incorporate it in your game ASAP. Go to training mode and do it, as it will feel weird at first. I was fortunate to learn this over 10 years ago, but definitely it’s something not talked about enough in the Guile circle.

**jumping in:
**
Bad overall beginner habit. And online play doesn’t make this any better as lag generally mess up people’s anti-airs making you think jump-ins are more effectivel than they really are. This appears to be a really hard habit to break. I’m not sure how someone would go about breaking this, as I don’t recall ever being much of a jumper during my time as a SF player. It’s not something I’ve ever had to deal with. Any suggestions from anyone else?

** Meter waste:**

Again, I am guilty of this, and I just recently amended this probably at the end of vanilla. I know I personaly wasteed meter when I got impateint, or if my opponent was being too defensive pending their last few hits. I also wasted it a lot during the actual matches, trying to be psychic by punishing jabs and other moves that I was predicting. While Guile builds up meter fast, he only builds it from a distance safely. You really want to have these meters to use during certain jump-in situations, and you want a full super meter in case someone tries to vortex you. I got in the habit of sitting on my meter until they got close, and using a super to get out of certain situations. Or I would often use EX flashkick for jump-ins wich questionable angles.[

** mashing, twitchy button pressing:

**
A newer player habit. Mashing when someone get’s in close. You generally want to not do this. I know it seems to work but in the long run it doesn’t. I notice a lot of players press something at all times during the match. Even at points when someone is nowhere near them, they are still mashing out moves at the other end of the screen. Please stop this, really good players will punish you any time you whiff, or use these opporunties to close in on you.

Whiffing is good for Guile but only in a certain context. Generally whiffing normals accompany his zoning game. It’s a good way to alter the rhythm of your sonic booms, and it will keep your opponent off guard. However if you are not following up with sonic booms from safe ranges, then you have no business pressing buttons.

**Badly spaced sonic booms:

**
Everyone has this habit. I’ve even seen Daigo throw fireballs right in someone’s face. Mago has done the same thing. We all know we shouldn’t do it, but we do it anyway. Why? I think we get too much in our zoning habits, and we know our sonic booms is a good way to create pressure on wakeup for our opponents. But overally, spacing out sonic booms is important. You really don’t want to become predictable when throwing them, or you’ll be eating jump-ins and ultras all day.

any other noticeable habits ?


#2

i’d like to see that gilley tutorial


#3

[media=youtube]mARorBkHxt0[/media]

^^ found it


#4

[media=youtube]mARorBkHxt0[/media]

^^ found it


#5
  • Random/Wakeup Ultra is another thing I’m guilty of sometimes.

U2 can be jumped over on reaction. IIRC, comes out in 8 frames and active on 9th. Meaning you can jump over for free. That is, unless you space it so that either they land on it, or it forces them to move back.

  • Thinking FK will save Guile from Crossups?

I used to jump in a lot more than I do now, which ultimately led to some pretty piss poor games. How to make someone not jump in? Just play with them and use Gief and lariat their ass to kingdom come. That’ll teach em not to jump in. That will also make them start thinking of how to get in through alternative means.


#6

I am ashamed you didnt mention badly spaced shades…

You could say using one anti air normal ( Cr.:hp:) or the air throws. While it may look silly, but I was a victim of abusing these moves and had cost me some matches. I have learned to use the St.:hp:, neutral :mk:, and ofcourse occasionally the Guile Epic (High) Kick (if gief jumps in, only gief so far).

Cr.:hp: was overrated and I was driven by the flow, I learned that Guile Anti air normals are situational and dependant to specific character jump ins, as well the distance and height. Air throw, a move I also abused so much, was countered by fake jump ins, as in the opponent predicted my move and goes for Air to Air move.

Who said Guile has no mix ups? His AA is a mix up in its own :smiley: (Sadly it is on us guile players…)


#7

I’m guilty of FK on wake up. but I’ve stopped doing it in super. Although, I agree you generally should not throw fireball in someone’s face, but all depends on how you do it. I’ve seen Mago fireball someone up close till the opponent reach the end of screen just from blocking the tiger shots, it’s all down to your spacing.

one thing I would like to add is that try to only use EX Boom when you are at a good distance from your opponent. I’ve been punished numerous time because I did an EX Boom close, it has bad recovery.


#8

This is a great one that I was called out on a couple weeks back. It wasn’t that I was constantly walking back, but I was giving up ground needlessly. Guile does his best work in the corner, and it is much harder to reverse positions than it is to bulldog the other person back. An example I was pointed to on how to hold space and advance (Muteki):

[media=youtube]4nyLMWgVZ4E&feature=related[/media]


#9

Does anyoe know how to add spoilers?


#10

I think you can just quote this and ctrl C to tha muhfuggin V

whatever

[details=Spoiler]Word
holla
holla holla
[/details]


#11

I agree with the meter management thing… from a year of playing Sagat where meter is pretty much handed out to him for free through TS/TU/TK, I have to get used to knowing when to use meter and when to conserve it. As for the charging, after being wrecked in the corner by good players you’ll know never to walk back constantly while charging booms.


#12

I’ve been playing Guile since SFIV came out and I didn’t even know about pre-charging. Thanks for the the wake up call


#13

I am guilty of these. Good post my man.


#14

What I’ve been doing as of late is trying to break out of the Flashkick (reversal) > FADC and trying to punish more with safer normals (ex. cr.mp xx sonicboom). I’m also trying to manage my meter better so that when it comes to certain situations, I can use the stock as opposed to not having any at all and limiting myself completely.


#15

Throwing SBs through tatsus.
I guess it falls under ‘badly spaced SBs’, but it’s a bad habit of mine to throw out SBs slightly after a Ryu does a half-screen tatsu.


#16

Ones I’ve caught myself doing as I learn Guile (I got the game late, it’s day 4 for me :slight_smile: )

-Trying for “psychic” air throws and looking foolish on the way down.

-Using the wrong AA for the situation. Sometimes cHP just isn’t the right one it seems.

-Missing links. I’ve always loved pad and contended one can play at a high level on one (unless we’re playing 3s or a CvS2 groove w/ RC, but I digress…), but the more I hear people say plinking magically makes all the 1 frame links a piece of cake, the more I’m ready to shell out the cash for a good stick.

-Forgetting to put on Sunglasses in the heat of battle. Seriously, how am I ever going to win EVO this way?


#17

Add to never end a combo in EX flashkick. I cringe when I see players do this.

1 meter is not worth 16 damage.


#18

^ This. This is a big one. I’d rather use the stock I would have used on an EX FK for something more useful, like a “get the fuck away from me” wake up FK > FADC back.


#19

way to waste 3 bars for your “gtfo move”.


#20

I still have a lot of bad habits even though I’ve been using Guile since SFIV. Wake-up Flash Kick is probably the worst offender for me, and I have a tendency to fall victim to the perfect safe-jumping shoto that hits me on Sonic Boom recovery, which falls into bad Sonic Boom spacing.

I’d say it’s a lot easier for players to break this habit if they are constantly playing good people offline and locally, but for some players such as me, who’s game is 100% online, some of these bullshit tactics become normal things as the idiots online fall victim. That certainly doesn’t make them good or viable, but you get in the habit of using them because they work, and then it’s hard to stop, even when it ends up getting punished.