Newbies can't have fun in multiplayer?


#1

Hello,

I’m a total newbie to fighting games in general and I decided to give a chance to MvC3.

I wanted to play with normal control as i think it’s more fun and give you more progression oportunities.
I watched SRK tutorials videos an read many stuff to understand the mechanics even if i don’t master them.
I played some solo game (3-4 hours) and decided to give a try to the multiplayer.

First thing is obviously players either are really good, or only play with simple control mode, so there is absolutely no way for me to have the slightest chance to win a match without using simple controls, as i just can’t pull off a special/hyper exactly when i want to (maybe 60-75% of the time but its way too low to hope winning versus someone who just push one button so have 100% chance). So i switched to simple control mode after 10 loss or so.

I totally excpected to lose the first 10 games as i really suck at the game. But there is a huge problem with matchmaking : I’m always matched with people WAY better than me even after 30+ matches. Im now 6win / 30 losses and i keep getting matched versus players with 100+ wins and 50 def or so. So i think the matching is totally random and there is no ELO rating or something to match people of similar skills.
What’s the point for me to play versus people with 70% win ratio when i have less than 20% ? Its not interesting at all for me nor for the opponent who almost perfect me all the time.

Maybe i just have to play solo 30+ hours before going online, but i will just not do this, as i want to practice and having fun when practicing.

I play mainly RTS (stacraft2 atm) and the matchmaking system match me with people of similar strength. It provides interesting matches and room to progress while having fun.

Am I missing something or is the game just designed to disgust new players ? Or maybe versus games are just not for me ?


#2

3-4 hours in training mode is really nothing and I wouldn’t expect to win a single game with that little experience.


#3

Play offline. At least you’ll get real feedback and not lag feedback.


#4

I coulda sworn there was an option to search for people similar in rank, but I haven’t played online in ages. As was said not being able to hit simple things like supers 100% is a bit of a deterant to actual victories, but how about playing player matches? Then you don’t have to focus on anything like wins/losses and you can just pace yourself. It takes time, it took me well over 30 straight losses in Blazblue to even get a handle on the game, but as long as you’re learning stuff with losses eventually it’ll tip over.


#5

You can definitely play matchmaking with similar ranked players if you want to. However, if you’re trying to learn how to play by playing matches, you should try your hardest to find a similarly inexperienced player (or group of players) to play offline with. You need to learn how to apply your techniques, not just how to perform them, as well as how to defend, and training mode only aids with execution.


#6

Why do you have to win in order to have fun?


#7

Thanks for the replies.

I don’t need to win to have fun. I need to be matched with people of similar skills to have fun. Being perfected 5 times in a row is not fun.
I tried the option to be matched with people of the same rank, so instead of being matched with 150/50 win/loss, i get matched with people with 10/2 loss. Its still not fun for me, sorry.

It looks like there is a consensus in this game where all people train 30+ hours vs cpu and in training mode before playing vs human opponent.
Problem is for me training vs cpu and in the training room is far from the fun i expected when i bought the game. I thought there was an ELO ranking and that i would be matched with newbies to progress maybe slowly but having some fun in the process. these days many games try to match people with similar skill, at low skill like at higher skills. I’m pretty suprised such a geature does not exists in MvC3.

I dont want to (even if i can) spend 30 hours to do boring things in order to have possibly some fun later.
I just think this kind of games is not for me :slight_smile:


#8

You don’t need to spend 30 hours in training mode to be ready to play your first few matches. You need to spend 1-2 hours learning basic BnB (or even simpler - even LMHS [jc] j.MMHS [land] [otg] [super] is a starting point) combos for your characters, what you can DHC from and into, etc. After that, you need to spend 10+ hours playing offline casuals to get an idea of how to play your team in matches - how to get your characters’ hijinks started, how to blockstring, and perhaps most importantly how to defend. A player who can defend perfectly but only do simple combos will get a hell of a lot farther than a player who knows complicated combos and mixups but cannot defend.

Yes, you’ll have to go back to the lab to learn new techniques, but lab sessions should rarely have to go over two hours so long as you focus your time on learning one or two important new techniques. All the lab time in the world won’t make a difference if you don’t play matches to back it up either - knowing how to do something and knowing how to set it up are very different things, and the setup is just as, if not more, important.

Seriously though - play offline with other people for practice. Online won’t help you get good at the game; there are some pretty important things possible offline but heavily hindered online due to lag (e.g. punishing slightly unsafe moves)


#9

The game itself is pretty bad when it comes to matchmaking, but comparing it to Starcraft isn’t really fair since Starcraft has a pretty good matchmaking/division system that allows people to be placed properly.

The problem being at the bottom of the pool (aka, bronze like you would be if this was Starcraft) is that you have to play people who are just starting out (like the 10-2 guy) who already know what they’re doing and are just working their way up. So there is always going to be that issue. But unlike Starcraft, which was designed to be played online all the time, this is an offline game with an online component. Find locals in your area and play offline, it will help when they can give you feedback right away about what you’re doing wrong


#10

If you’re really that bad just play with a friend who you know doesn’t play fighting games.


#11

Play player match not ranked quit after one if they are too good if you like playing them rematch. Spend time in training mode getting to the point where you can do 400k to 600k bnb’s with all 3 of your chars consistantly.


#12

To have a chance at winning online, you need to be able to: consistently do quarter-circles and dragon-punch motions, do basic LMHS superjump MMHS combos with all of your characters, and understand the general game mechanics (red life, DHCs, calling assists, etc). If you can’t do one of those three things, you’ll only ever win by luck. Yes, it requires a few hours in training mode.

What you’re doing now is like somebody trying out SC2 as their first ever RTS, playing the single player for 3 hours, then jumping into online play and doing things like building one barracks and only making marines all game. They would go at BEST 5 wins in their first 20 games. And they’ll never get out of Bronze league, because they just don’t understand concepts like build orders, scouting, effective army compositions, etc. You have to suck it up and do some homework if you want to be any good, just like in Marvel.


#13

it’s going to take more than 3-4 hours to do well. Invite some friends over & play offline(it can still be fun…even if you lose).


#14

I’m having something of a similar problem… first of all, it’s ludicrous that capcom didn’t put the option into filter by simple or not simple mode, for those of us with no experience with the series but who still wanted to play with “real” controls.

My problem’s a bit different - I’ve worked my way up from beginner, to amateur, to rookie, and now I’m at figher. I played a TON of offline and a lot of player matches, and only went to ranked from time to time when I got some confidence. At rookie, amateur and beginner, the matchmaking seemed to work great. For player match and ranked. Sometimes I’d be matched with someone a level higher, sometimes a level lower, but never a huge disparity in skill level.

As soon as I hit “fighter”, though, it seems as if the game’s put me on a different “tier” altogether. I no longer get matched with anyone below my level, but frequently get matched with people well above my level. This has gotten incredibly frustrating, as I’m just barrrely good enough to even be considered “fighter”, but 90% of my matches are with people much much better than me.

So does anyone know if “fighter” is an actual tier? It’s gotten so frustrating that I actually wanna drop a rank so I can fight people around my level. Is that possible, or am I stuck at “fighter”? Come to think of it, I’m gonna copy n’ paste this and make a new thread, doubt anyone will answer these questions buried deep in a thread like this :slight_smile:


#15

I now see my problem : i have little to no opportunities to play offline with friends. I was honestly hoping that multiplayer would solve this problem but obviously there is no real solution as the matchmaking does not really work the it (imo) should.
I was also thinking that multiplayer would be more complex (more options, tournaments, etc) but as you said, its mainly an offline game with an online option.

MrZurkon pointed out an important thing with the possibility to filter simple / standard controls when matchmaking.
As a pure newbie I honestly have no chance to fight with standard controls vs another newbie using simple mode.
I think at higher level there is no such issue as someone using properly standard mode will simply crush anyone using simple mode, but at low level it almost force newbs like me to play simple mode and so not improving.


#16

Poum, the rookie problems could be easily addressed if there were any kind of spectator system. Anonymous newbies could group and discuss matches while they took place, and simply being able to talk to like gamers (and more importantly tutors and experts) while taking in matches in realtime would improve the learning curve 10-fold. It even seems evident, from the names of the matchmaking rooms, that capcom intended this, but for whatever reason was unable to implement it coming to release. “looking for a tutor”, “beginners, unite”, etc, it seemed that they foresaw people congregating to observe, discuss, and practice, as people can in any other modern fighter, and even mvc2.

I love this game. I ADORE this game, though im absolutely terrible at it, and i truly think it’s the greatest fighter ever made. I’m 31 and i’ve played them all (though i havent been an “expert” at anything since Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat 2).

But i truly believe the lack of spectator and recorded matches will cause it to fade to about 1/4 the population online of what it would have been, and lesser fighters with more robust online features will overtake it and mvc will be the exclusive realm of the dedicated pros and elites (though i’m not so sure the average srk’er would necessarily be so upset). I for one think it’s sad that a game that is so good that, with the right online features and matchmaking, could have had such a groundswell of new fan support that it could have grown in competitive play popularity to rival COD and Halo.

I really believe that spectator mode alone could have made this difference, as it would have allowed exponential improvements in both the social aspect and the learning aspect. Its pretty crazy that i have to hunt down videos online for good matches to get ideas from, when ive got a perfectly good 360 right there, with a shiny new copy of mvc3 in it, that i should be able to watch those matches on, live and recorded.

Anyway, rant over. Poum, I recommend playing some player matches, and when you run into people who ARE at your skill level, friend request them and then you’ll have equal players to practice with.