No one bashing Advancing Guard as a scrub-friendly mechanic?


#1

I’m quite surprised the usual crowd hasn’t picked up on this as some casual dumbing down of fighting games and yet another scrub mechanic alongside X-Factor etc.

Having a push block with such massive push back negates a lot of blockstring mixups and in a lot of cases is pretty ‘free’ as in, hard to punish and unlimited in use, unlike say Barrier Guard from BlazBlue (which doesn’t push back nearly as far and is limited by meter).

I’m not saying I have a problem with it, just surprised it hasn’t come under fire yet. Is it a casual friendly mechanic or a ‘legit’ mechanism for all levels of skill?


#2

-leaves you in longer blockstun

-can be negated w/ assists/advancing attacks

-can be baited/punished very hard

-pushblocking all the time can screw you out of free punishes vs certain moves

it’s not as bad as you make it seem.


#3

There’s been people who have trouble dealing with it and expressed their trouble dealing with it but it’s not really like something people seem to deem as cheap like X Factor. Most of the cast has tools designed to beat advance guard and generally have a few special moves that totally bypass it. Like my team of X23/Wesker/Doom is just a big fuck you to advance guard. X23’s L and M mirage feints can easily bypass advance guard and if she pushes people in the corner her dive moves dont get pushed back from it anymore. The M feint you can purposely delay if someone tries to advance guard one of your normals so that you end up 50/50 crossing them during their advance guard and put them in a mix up for trying it.

Wesker doesn’t give a shit about advance guard. He has a command grab where all 3 versions are 1 frame so he can set up tick grab games all day. If someone tries to pushblock one of his normals he can cancel it into H teleport to stay in their face. Plus calling an assist during a block string lets you stay in since assists can not be pushed by advance guard.

Doom doesn’t really give a shit about advance guard either because he’s the only character in the game where his dash game works in reverse. Instead of being able to cancel his dash into normals he can cancel his normals into dash or jumps. Which basically means anytime you feel the opponent is going to advance guard a normal you just dash forward after they do it to stay in their face then jump and start foot dive pressure or do a high low mix up etc. Doom basically wants people to advance guard him because it pushes them towards the corner where he has self death combos against almost the entire cast and can easily build 2 plus meters.

Generally basic stuff like stopping your block strings short then pushing a button later is a good way to stop advance guard. If the opponent tries to advance guard when they’re not actually in block stun it will force them to dash and get hit by a combo. Throws are one frame in this game so they are a huge deterrent to spamming advance guard also. Assists are great for beating advance guard since they do not get pushed back and basically extend your block strings. Of course most of the cast have moves that cancel out advance guard like Felicia’s cat spike moves, Hsien Ko’s spinning scythe, X23’s mirage feints, and Doom’s normal to dash cancels.


#4

AG is really annoying to deal with at first. but once you figure out how to deal with it, it isnt so bad… is it nooby friendly? certainly… but only against noobs.

direct way to deal with AG is to forward dash when you anticipate it… forward dashes dont get affected by AG almost at all.

then just learn where your opponent likes to AG there are 3 spots where people ag alot:

on the first hit of a jumpin
the first after blocking a jumpin
the third hit after blocking a jumpin.

i dont know how to deal with the first one… it pisses me off.

the second one is just do a delayed LMH to frame trap the pushblock.
the third one is to just do LM (delay) LMH/trijump/instant overhead.

pushblock against ranged moves doesnt piss me off at all as i just get more frame advantage by dashing towards them if they get super predictable.

-dime


#5

empty jump into low attack works 90% of the time for me on people who like to AG a jump in:tup:


#6

Doesn’t like, just about everyone has a way of negating advancing guard when they have someone cornered?


#7

I feel like the pushback is a little extreme but it can be baited quite easily.


#8

It was already in MVC2, why would anyone complain about it now?


#9

thx dude :tup:

i had a feeling it was empty jump something, but i dont see it used at high level much at all and ive been to 'fraid to try it out myself. but now that i know that empty jump low is the correct way to deal with it, my life will be much easier!

-dime


#10

QFT.

Also, they put AG in so that you can catch your breath. Without it, some characters have no answer for getting out of block strings that are covered by assist. You’d effectively be locked down with no way to fight back or defend yourself. The only way out would be to try somethng unsafe. You see how wrong shit goes in fighting games (SSF4 for instance) for wrong defensive guesses. Now you have 2 people in your face. Imagine Magneto being covered by… Sent drones or hidden missiles and you can use AG. Now you have to look for a hole to try and counter him. You think you have one, then you get hit by something.

Simply put, AG is a neccessity. Sure not using it for certain things gives you a chance to punish and thoes things are very situational, most of them being specials and supers. But outside of that, punish opportunities are next to none.


#11

Why have none of you pointed out the very obvious fact that without advanced guard the game breaks entirely?

There are true block strings that do chip damage this is a reason why advance guard is necessary, Viper cornering an enemy who doesn’t have advanceguard means that the game is over since she doesn’t get pushed back and does high chip damage for the relatively short amount of time until they die to rapid fire Seismos. If playing against Spiral in 2 has taught me anything, any game that you can let go of the stick and never leave block stun needs mechanics to prevent that from happening.


#12

/thread


#13

Besides the obvious fact that without AG, we’d relive ST Akuma Red Fireball shenanigans, it’s not really scrub friendly at all, if anything, noobs or scrubs who mash on it can pay for it. They mash it too hard, they might end up sticking out a normal, oh look, dead character.

The only problem I ever had with AG was the loss of Trish mixups with Round Harvest…at least until we figured out we could switch out during Round Harvest and can avoid being AG’d…so yeah, I have no problems with AG in this game.


#14

why would it be scrub friendly if it was there since 1996? the mechanic was implemented during a time when fighting games were @ its peak.

can you imagine if strider\doom in mvc2 without push block in the game or fuck, even spiral\sent\cable? once that shit said fight, you would not move and it would be game over.


#15

So many characters are equipped to move right back after an AG (Felicia, Zero, Doom)

Assists can’t be pushblocked either so picking something like Chun’s Lightning Legs, Akuma’s Tatsu, Cap’s Shield, Skrull’s Tenderizer or Ammy’s Ice Shots just gives you a lot of time to move back in after an AG.


#16

Spamming pushblock is moronic, for example take dante’s air S. If you pushblock that while standing then you just missed a huge chance to punish him.


#17

This will take you very far. Seriously. Especially with how easy and damaging combos are this time around.


#18

I get killed so often for spamming pushblock. I would call it more of a crutch than a scrub mechanic.


#19

I use pushblock all the time by accident.


#20

i think it’s a scrub friendly mechanic and an excuse for capcom to not really much work into blockstrings and stuff like that