No vids of US SF's 'Golden Era' & best_ever player!?


That’s silly…any random scrub that decides to play the game and jumps around mashing buttons, will probably end up doing a crossup. Tomo seems to think if Tomo wasn’t experiencing it himself (until that moment), then it couldn’t have happened before then.

In the end, there’s no way of knowing who did the first crossup or even who the first person was to understand the crossup.


Cross ups are obviously something people could figure out on their own.


that vid is a good reminder about why we should stop fellating these guys.

They obviously believe their own myths a little too much.


People tend to forget how completely different SF2 was when it first came out. The basic concept of a cross-up was beyond anything people could think about. We’re talking about a game where even COMBOS were a new idea. New stuff was getting figured out every single day, but it wasn’t necessarily common knowledge to anyone except maybe serious tournament-level players, who actually made it a mission to travel to different arcades, and try to find ways to break the game.

They have a point about supers in SF2. In traditional SF2, minor mistakes were punished with minimal damage, and major mistakes were punished with dizzy combos. Pretty simple mechanic, but it’s a risk v. reward system that made sense. Supers were a complete game changer in ST, and altered the way certain matchups were handled at key points. Now, instead of getting a minor punish for making a minor mistake, such as a whiffed sweep or cr.forward, now it’s very possible to eat 40-60% damage off of that. What was normally a fairly safe fireball thrown at sweep range, is now a huge risk with little reward. This is why you often see players immediately start to adopt an ultra-conservative style to deal with supers, as a sort of mini-game of trying to defuse the super, before you can go back and play street fighter again. This risk v. reward potential was mitigated in future iterations of street fighter, where games were designed to better incorporate and balance super use, instead of just having supers tacked onto a brand new game for the sake of being fresh (like ST was).

As far as HSF goes, plenty of old characters were competitively viable. In fact, a large reason why that game isn’t being played seriously now, is due to odd game glitches, as well as over-powered characters. CE Bison, CE Guile, and CE/HF Ryu and Sagat were so extremely powerful in that game, the super would hardly even matter. Most were able to kill you before you even got a super.


I regret having this thread showing up in my alerts.

If I wanted to read a bunch of passive aggressive bitches I would’veOH WAIT I DON’T WANT THAT AT ALL


Good to see Elton Chong back in the threads again


reading and listening comprehension fail

Tomo is just stating who HE saw do the first crossup

so many new school faggots who are quick to give a bitchmade response

but I am glad bitches like you and Xie responded, because it just goes to show how out of touch you were at the reality of the time ( probably wasn’t even around for the WW-HF era ). the game was way different and information like that wasn’t made known to the US public until the Gamepro Champion Edition tipbook came out. there was no hub like SRK or eventhubs to find out information like this. players literally drove around trying to find the best competition and things like this was observed and copied from first hand eyewitness accounts.

but yeah, keep being an anonymous / no name salty hater who is comfortable being an arm chair revolutionist / history revisionist


Having to adapt to new situations and playing perfectly isn’t a bad thing, and supers open up new possibilities in the game. And they are another way to fight zoning, giving some characters a chance in matchups like Sim or O.Sagat. Maybe some supers do a bit too much damage compared to how effective they are, but saying that they are a throwaway additions or that they randomize the game / make it not Street Fighter is dumb.


They were saying that it changed the game too much from what they liked that’s all you need to take out of it. It isn’t about adapting but more so not liking the feature enough to want to adapt.


I was there when crossups were invented too! At a particular 7-11 in south Seattle. Also, I can claim tick-throws as well, we totally invented those!

edit: Although I guess that’s not that special, all of these things were invented many times in many places.


The context was given, anyone acting like Tomo was claiming he saw the invention of the cross up is either a)downspergers b)lame troll c)retarded


alternatively, its just not looking at it through a fan-filter.


The issue with ST is that supers were just tacked on without much polish or fine-tuning given as to how it affects the meta game. This can be seen in the way that some characters have extremely powerful supers, while other characters have a fairly useless super that they hardly ever use. Poor Honda’s super, while clearly intended to blow through fireballs, is unsafe on hit or block at far ranges, which is clearly a poor design flaw. Ryu v. Ryu is a perfectly beautiful match, until one of them gets a super, then it becomes a dumb game, until the supers go away, and we can resume playing SF again. My issue isn’t with supers, because they were clearly better-handled in future iterations of SF, it’s the way supers were designed specifically in ST. Now, it’s forgivable, since it was the first time that supers were put onto an SF game, but it was far from perfect in its conception.

Traditional SF play has always been a carefully constructed chess match, full of micro-battles, with an appropriate risk v. reward system in place. This got somewhat turned on its side with supers, and how easily some characters are able to build supers, and completely shift the dynamic of the match. The strategy for many characters revolved around building the super to completely change how your opponent plays, which is the ideal outcome in a matchup, to dictate what your opponent should and should not do. While I love ST, super abuse becomes a very real problem at the meta game.

Now you say that they assist in certain matches where characters are easily zoned out, but this can be fixed by tweaking either the control or the rush character’s options. Blanka certainly had an easier time fighting zoning characters in HF largely due to changes in how his ball and jump attacks motions were handled, no reason they couldn’t do the same for others. And pretty much everyone in HF was competitively viable, with the exception of maybe Bison.

Forum trolls have no concept of reading comprehension. They just want to take things out of context and blow them out of proportion to seem relevant. Just ignore them.

  1. To some of the kid naysayers, if you were in your diapers or unborn at that time really you don’t have a right to speak. (I’m pretty sure all the people ripping on the old timers fall in this category by their ignorant comments). You have no idea what you are talking about. It’s like ignorant basketball fans saying Kobe is better than Jordan but never saw Jordan play besides the Wizards years. I don’t try to ascertain how great Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Joe Montana, Wilt Chamberlain, etc. were since I wasn’t alive during their times or watched them and the scarce video footage is a poor resource for making a sound judgement (though I am certainly aware they were talented).

  2. Debating with the ignorant, well it is a waste of time but let me make one last statement. Right now about 5% of individuals who play video games, play fighting games and among those very few actually are trying to get better most just mash buttons and have a fun time. Back during the golden age…95% of people who played video games, played street fighter. Girls, boys, kids, adults, teens…just about everyone. Also almost everyone was trying to get better/discover new things. So out of this huge pool of players, exponentially larger than for any fighting game following it (especially 2d games), the few players who were considered among the best deserve respect. It was a lot harder back then to get to the top. Peace out.


Not to mention, players back then played for the love of the game, and to get better than the man next to him. Nowadays, it just feels like we have more stream monsters, fan boys, and forum trolls, than actual players who want to get better. People were just hungrier back then to become a better player, instead of wanting to become famous.


You draw a LOT of info from the fact that folks don’t give respect to the people you think they should.


Why single out supers? That happens with normals and specials too.

Supers in ST are perfectly fine design wise. They are a way to go through projectiles or to have limited access to reversals for some characters, without having to resort to homogenizing systems. Some are good, some not, some are situational or work in combos. Lumping all of them together and saying they are bad as if all of them were the same is wrong. Some may be too good, but so are some normals and specials (hello O.Sagat).

ST is exactly the same, with the added complexity of supers. Having to change your strategy when someone has access to supers is not bad, it’s good. It makes the game more complex, not the other way around. You can still bait them to make the opponent waste his meter, be aggressive to prevent meter building, etc. Super detractors make it seem as if they were random or you could do nothing against them, which is false.

Some characters have that kind of moves. Some have supers. No reason why you should have one or the other. Everyone is competitively viable in ST too, with the exception of Cammy. ST is a much more complex game in every way though, which is the reason we play that instead of HF.


When the guy clearly says “the first guy I ever saw do cross-ups…”, blowing him up for that seems like a pretty serious lack of comprehension, especially when he goes on to clarify that Tony was merely just the first guy he noticed making Cross-ups™ a specific part of gameplay.


ie, losing your quarters>losing face


One last update…
Compilation video someone has put together of discussion of and Tomo himself:

and another professional channel short on Tomo with over 1m views!