Noob Question - I can't cancel my moves?


#1

Greetings,

I’ve decided to take the plunge with SFV, and try to learn how to actually play this game. I’ve been practicing with Ryu and Ken ( as per many suggestions ), and reading as many guides as I can. I am focusing on training modes and online ranked, trying to get better. But frankly, I am getting stomped daily.

One thing I have noticed is that when I land a hit, I pretty much just get that one hit ( unless I have managed to do a Target Combo ). It’s not that I can never hit my opponents, but I can’t really capitalize on it. Meanwhile whenever I get touched, other guy combos at least 2 or 3 moves, and I end up getting drained fast.

Up until now I never quite put my finger on it, but after they added that new Challenge Mode, I think I see my biggest problem. I simply cannot cancel my Normals into Specials. The first Challenge for Ken has you jumping in with HP, then throwing a standing MP and finishing with a Hadouken. I must have tried that thing 50 times, and I cannot get the last part of the string. If I perform the motion naturally, I will throw the Hadouken at the end, but it must be too late because it gets blocked. If I try to execute it faster, it just doesn’t come out at all. It’s driving me insane!

Is this just a matter of my fat fingers, or am I missing something conceptually? I don’t have a problem throwing out Hadoukens as a starting move, so I feel like I have the motion down pretty well. But this is starting to make me wonder. Is there a particularly narrow window here that I am just missing? Are there any tips to getting the Special out faster? I am using a PS4 pad if that makes a difference.

Thanks for any advice!


#2

It sounds like you’re just starting the fireball motion to late. I’ll try to explain the timing using your example. Ken mp canceled into fireball. Go into practice mode and just hit the mp a few times. Watch for when the mp actually hits. Then try to do the fireball motion during the mp and hit the punch for the fireball just after the normal mp connects. This will make him do the fireball without pulling his arm back.

Another way to try and find the right speed to do it is try crouching mk canceled to fireball. Do the fireball motion a few times. Then without changing the speed you did the fireball motion, press mk right after you press down and a punch when you hit forward.


#3

Fighting games are the hardest games ever…seriously they are. SF is probably the hardest fighting game, because you can really only learn from experience, you can improve your execution and learn cool combos in training, but, you have to play lots and lots and lots of people to actually get good at the game. Tekken (my favorite game) you need experience too, but you can learn fundamentals through practice and spacing with the help of ghost and ai…obviously ai is different than a person…but Tekken is nothing like SF.

You just need to do your hadouken faster. St hp xx hadouken is much harder than cr. hp hadouken as well. Just practice and you’ll get it down. You’ll learn it, it just takes time.

A piece of advice, have fun, hope for the best, expect the worst. You will lose more in the beginning than you will win. It is a fact. I don’t mean to be a **** but, fighting games take practice and aren’t that fun in the beginning :confused: If you really want to play them well, you will succeed though :slight_smile:

good luck :slight_smile:


#4

Yes Sf and kof series are hardest imo.

Tekken is another story for me. in training mode its like a walk in the park. But against people I fail epicly. There is too much info in that game. Tekken has Easy mechanics ( queing inputs, mash friendly…) but those move lists and vast character roster takes tekken to another lvl. I’m not good at 3d fighters anyway.

concept of “canceling” is the core of 2d fighting games. you should hit the grid and train more. to understand the concept better study on an easier example.

hado inputs are down, down forward, forward+ punch. numpad quotation is 236+P. start with a crouching medium kick which already gives you the down input. 2mk, 3, 6hp…count one-two. cr.mk ONE, 3, 6hp TWO. bam bam, bam bam! repeat this exercise in training mode, it’ll become second nature.


#5

The way that I got the hang of it initially was to just think of the normal + special all as one attack. In my mind that got me doing it all as one fluid motion because instead of, “Do a f. HP. Now do a DP. Now do a super” it just became “Do that one thing”.

Of course, the challenge for me then becomes hit confirming. Because it seems that you usually already have to be buffering the next move before the first one has even hit or been blocked, so you have to have that reaction/restraint to not finish it if you’re blocked (or to finish it if you hit!)


#6

@Veggie is pretty much on the money here.

A bit of technical talk here, so I’m sorry if I ramble/confuse you.

Canceling Normals into Specials (and Specials into CA’s) is possible because when a Normal connects, there is a window where the game accepts inputs of Specials. That window differs based on the Normal that connects, with Fierce attacks having a wider window and Light attacks having a shorter window. You don’t have to do the QCF motion within this window, but the completed QCF motion PLUS the attack button must be registered WHILE the window is open. Doing the QCF motion before the window is open is called “Buffering”. Of course like a regular Hadouken, you can’t rush out the QCF motion, wait two seconds for the window to be open, then press punch because the motion + input must be done quickly. The same applies when buffering.

Back to what @Veggie said, this window for Ken’s st. MP is after the hit connects but before he pulls back his fist. Just like he said, you input the QCF motion as he’s doing the st.MP, and then hit the attack button just after the st.MP connects. What he basically said, is that you’re buffering Hadouken.

All cancelable moves have different cancel windows, but it loosely follows a rule of after it connects and before the attacking character finishes the animation (pulling back his fist in the st.MP example).

Hope that helps! Don’t give up @jujumbura, keep training!


#7

As soon as you press the button for the normal you want to cancel off from immediately do the fireball. I know it can be frustrating but it’s all practice bro, good luck.,


#8

As Bovinity said, think of it as “one fluid motion” as opposed to two separate.

i.e. If you are canceling a crouching strong into fierce fireball with Ryu for example… You are most likely of the mindset “I have to push down on the stick and strong button, then do a fireball motion and push fierce.”

This would basically make you do two down inputs on the stick in a row:

Down + strong THEN down > down forward > forward + fierce

This is entirely wrong.

You need to be of the mindset, “I need to start my fireball motion while pushing strong, then push fierce as I finish my motion.” This is how the concept of “buffering” or the “two-in-one” works. You push strong when you start the fireball motion because the first direction you go for a fireball is DOWN. Making your inputs look more like this:

Down + strong > down forward > forward + fierce.

See how in this example, the second down input is completely skipped. This is because the game is already registering the down input from the fireball motion.

Sorry if I couldn’t explain better.

The most IMPORTANT piece of advice I can give you though is when people say “do it faster” you do NOT have to try to crank this thing out like your life depends on it. Do the motions slow and then speed it up a lil’ bit until the move comes out properly. This will not only imporove your precision on the stick, but also help your muscle memory.

Hope that helped a little and good luck!

(Edit: When I say stick I mean pad. =) )


#9

Yeah, some of these concepts are really interesting but is often wholly opaque to new players.

mk. Sonic Scythe into CA for example, if you told a new player to do this they’d likely think: :qcb: :mk: :qcb: :qcb: :k: which won’t get you the instantaneous cancel into CA. Instead you can just :qcb: :mk: :qcb: :k: and get the scythe cancelling right into CA as long as you did it “fast”.

Not that any new player should really be worrying too much about that sort of input right off the bat, but still there are a lot of things like that which aren’t readily apparent.


#10

If it helps, Chun’s cr.mk has a very late cancel window so you could try practicing with that.

It might also help to practice using negative edge. That way you don’t have to think about using another button.

Hold down - press and hold mk - roll to forward - let go of mk to do cr.mk xx mk.legs


#11

a rule of thumb with cancels and links is finding the sweet spot. If the cancel/link does not come out slow down, and if it does not combo speed up.
with this trial you can use negitive edge to help. when u do the standing MP don’t let go of the button until after you do the motion for the fireball. In street fighter releasing a button counts as an input for special moves.


#12

Hey all,

Thanks a ton for all these suggestions. Especially the explanation of motion buffering; that definitely wasn’t something I understood before, but now it makes a lot more sense. Sometimes I would end up throwing a special after a normal when I thought I was going to just punch, and boom SHORYUKEN! I’m sort of like, “what just happened here…?” I think the motion buffering is what went on.

So that’s maybe half the the equation for me, but I’m still having a lot of trouble with the other half, which is the actual timing of the final input to launch the special. That window of “after hit, before recover” is just super-difficult for me to press reliably. For a 2 hit Combo ( MP xx Fireball ), I can do it reasonably well. Once it gets past 2, I just lose track of my timing. Hopefully just more practice will get me farther along?

I have to admit something embarrassing though; I did actually get past the first 3 Challenges for Ken, but the way I did it is by spamming the next input instead of trying to land a single press. That way I am only really focusing on getting the motions and the ordering right, instead of worrying about timing. But, I’m afraid this will become a bad habit ( obviously I will never be hit confirming by doing this kind of thing ). Should I abort this behavior immediately?

Thanks again!


#13

Never mash out inputs. Double-tapping a button is a well-known technique on stick, but I’m not sure what the gamepad 'equivalent" would be :D. But NEVER MASH out inputs whether they be buttons or directionals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p37f0EZhTzY

But seriously… never mash them out. If not already, I’m sure there will be tons of videos on youtube soon that can help show you the timing of the challenges.
Also this article may be somewhat helpful, and hopefully not confusing. :wink:


#14

@PJbottoms is right to suggest never mashing inputs, it can become a bad habit that will harm your combo execution. Plus, it’s brutal on your device :wink:

Getting the timing for canceling into Specials just takes some practice. Now that you understand the fundamentals behind it, I think you’ll get the hang of it soon enough. I tried to look online for Ken Challenge Mode Tutorials with input display but came up with nothing. I did however find Karin Challenge Tutorials with input display, which I think will still be useful to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L31Lzj91R9U

More than the video of his fightstick, watch his inputs on the right side of the screen. Watch when he starts to buffer her Mujinkyaku at the start of the video. Though it’s not Ken, the idea remains the same and understanding the timing for canceling with Karin is also applicable to canceling with Ken. It’s just a matter of their different normals.


#15

Thanks for the advice, and the videos. The early buffering of the inputs is kind of mind-blowing for me; at a glance, I can sense the delay before the final input ( to start the special ), especially when I watch that video of Karin. But if I try to pay too close attention, then it all just goes by in a blur. You know what I mean? It’s almost too fast for my conscious brain to handle. Only my subconscious can follow it… :s

I have actually been able to beat those first 3 challenges now without mashing. But, I’m definitely not consistent. When I get it right, I’m usually not even thinking that hard, it just happens. But when I try again, I usually bork it. Hopefully repetition will up my completion rate over time.

Hey, on a bit of a tangent: I am able to cancel into some specials now, but I cannot cancel into my CA for the life of me. You can cancel a special into a CA, right? I don’t think there is any way I am going to get two QCF’s off in the middle of a hit, I mean is that possible? I have also heard that you can sometimes treat previous special motions as part of a CA, but does that work for Ken? IE: could I use the first QCF from a Hadouken, and then one more QCF plus kick to cancel into the CA? I have been trying this, with no success.

Thanks again!


#16

You have the right idea about canceling a special into a CA. The trick is to do it one smooth motion. Just like before try doing Ken’s CA a few times. Then try it again without slowing your left hand down, and hit a punch on the first forward and a kick in the second.

Also don’t get discouraged if you have trouble with this stuff. A lot of people that you see doing this stuff like it’s no big deal have had years of practice. We all had the same problems when we started. Good thing is most 2d fighting games have canceling almost exactly how it works here, so your learning the skills for a ton of games at once.