Normals vs Projectiles spreadsheet!

I’ve created a spreadsheet of start-ups for normals and projectiles after a buddy of mine asked if there were any fireballs he could react to with Balrog.

So this is basically for anyone that is looking into reacting against fireballs by punishing them during their start-up. Now I realize some of them start-up too fast and are in turn very, very, very hard to punish on reaction, but I felt the need to compile the data anyway.

Let me know what you guys think. Useful? Food for thought kind of thing? Etc etc.

Normals vs Projectile start-ups

NINJA EDIT: In case anyone is confused after/while looking at this, it is all start-up data. No block stun, recovery, active frames, etc etc. Just start-ups, so you can compare for example, Ryu’s c.HK (5 frame start-up) vs Rose’s HP fireball (29 frame start up) and see whether you can punish it on reaction or not.


Thing is, you don’t really wanna punish normals on reaction with projectiles (unless it’s a Super). In fact, there’s hardly a case where you’d wanna punish anything at that range with a fireball. Against Balrog, you can react with EX projectiles to his dashes but I think that’s the only thing worth mentioning.

I think the OP meant punishing fireballs with normals on their start up…

Haha you’re right. Apologies OP. Disregard my post.

Lol yeah, that’s what I meant. Punishing projectiles with normals, on reaction.

I’m not really sure how useful it will be, but I figured, if my friend asked/wanted to know about it, might as well make it easier to look up the frame data for those that want to do the same.

Its just a spreadsheet with frame data, I dont see how this is applicable to “punishing projectile startup” at all. Punishing a move on startup isn’t punishing, its just footsies essentially. I am so confused.

Then just think of it as “footsies vs projectiles”.

I don’t see how much more confusing it can be, there’s start-up data for normals, and start-ups for projectiles. So if you’re playing that footsies game, you can react accordingly if you got that Daigo reflex.

And as I’ve said earlier, I don’t know how useful it will be, because if my friend asked me if he could react to any of Ryu’s Hadokens with s.RH, then I’m sure he’s not the only one who’s wondered about that piece of info.

You can’t punish any fireballs but Rose’s slower ones on reaction, and decent Rose players don’t do it at a range or in a situation that you could punish.

I guess the answer to your friend’s question is “No. You can’t react to any of Ryu’s Hadoukens with s.RH”

Great idea but unfortunately the real answer is too complicated to get from existing frame data. What really happens is you have some normal moves where the fighter’s fists go from near their body to fully extended in one frame without any gradual inbetween frames. For example ST Balrog’s far s.HP kinda teleports across a giant range in one frame.

With these kinds of moves, you don’t need to beat the fireball’s startup. All you have to do is position yourself so that your last startup frame is out of range, so the fireball doesn’t touch you until your first active frame. That way you can actually trade with a projectile after it has fully materialized.

Frame data alone doesn’t give you enough information in this case. For example Dhalsim’s limbs become fully extended before they become active. You need a combination of hitboxes and frame data to figure this out, and since that doesn’t exist, you gotta test this kinda stuff manually in Training Mode, like the way people used to do in olden days.

I see, thanks for the lesson, appreciate it Maj. :smiley:

At least now I know for sure whether it’s useful/useless.

It’s not useless dude. It’s still gonna be nice to have for anyone who wants to go into Training Mode and do some testing. But yeah, you can’t skip that step.

Oh, I know that. For me I find it to be useful food for thought type of stuff since I myself have ass reactions. I’m just saying “useful/useless” to not offend the die hard “fuck frame data” people. Lol.

Besides, if I really did think it was useless, I wouldn’t compile it, if you get what I mean.