Not-so beginner question about grips


#1

Before you say that grips are a matter of preference - I realize that. I’ve been practicing with stick for awhile now, have tried lots of different grips, had settled on a three finger wineglass before moving to a traditional wineglass except with my palm facing sideways, not more upwards. When facing left or right I shift my wrist to do double inputs or in KOF’s case, hard-as-hell inputs. Not even close to flawless yet when it comes to super inputs, but all the basic one-and-done stuff is pretty easy and fast.

Which leads me to my next point -

I’ve been watching the way most people have held the stick - and the thing is, they don’t hold it. There’s no grip, rather, they have a completely open palm and use the inside of their hand to move it sometimes as opposed to their fingers. What my concern with this is, is that sometimes with the two finger wineglass, its very difficult to have accurate movement in “anime” games like Melty Blood or GG or BB, which have IADs and double jumps and fast falls. In those games as well, they don’t have IAD shortcuts like 93, or 89632, but its specifically 9,6. With the grip I use, its extremely hard to do this consistently, mostly because of the physiology of how I hold it. When I switch to an open palm grip it is seamless and intuitive, because it involves two completely parts of the hand.

The other part about the open palm is double inputs, when facing the right. With the grip I use, I roll the ball off of my second finger and like, half of my third finger in the motion, and the ball almost touches that hard bone halfway between the index and thumb in that C shaped curvature where your index knuckle is. I feel like this isn’t efficient or accurate. I want to minimize the possibility of mistakes from the get go, and I don’t want to enter bad habits.

Which is why the question of grip does, indeed, come down to preference and what comes naturally, but the same way people aren’t going to tell you to strike a soccer ball with your toe or underhand a baseball, or try to do a kickflip with combat boots on, I want to know what grip is the most efficient at minimizing mistakes physiologically, and covering all types of inputs, whether they be KOF style super inputs, or extremely fast dashing. There’s a reason why its extremely rare to see the “grip of doom,” because you have to use your whole damn arm while holding the stick, and that requires too much energy and can be extremely inaccurate.

Yes, I probably am over-intellectualizing it, but that’s how I do things, and it helps me. So if someone who’s put much thought into this / has experimented with lots of different grips, or has taught people to use certain grips could shed some light / completely bash me or dispel what I think I’m talking about, that would be great.


#2

I don’t completely understand your entire post but what I understand you use an open grip when you face right and then a more traditional grip facing left but using your middle and ring finger? I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the grips you’re using but personally I only use the trad grip using my index and middle always on the ball.

Like on the right side I use the base of my fingers where the “webs” are to dash and push up from D/F. Then the fingers on the ball top control the QCB and backdash stuff. But I also got use to kind of turning my wrist if you can picture it? Its really hard to explain or it would be a pretty long wxplanation for me.

There really was no positives for me when I found out about the shortcuts in SFIV and was probably the reason DP’s kept coming out when I first started playing. I’m still in the learning process of using the stick with minimal effort while maintaining GDLK execution but I’d think I’m not even half way there. It;s all about comfort and utilizing what feels comfortable and natural to a point where it becomes second nature.

Also the thumb seems to be an overlooked part of the hand that I began using recently to get the U/R and U/L inputs. but for straight SJ I pull down with my two fingers then push up with my ring finger. I mostly got used to this cause I don’t like moving my elbow and like to keep my hand fixed as opposed to floating. Also it came about from playing on P2 sides on small arcade cabs. I have no idea if I answered your question or helped at all but I hope I did.


#3

I think I’m pretty much in the same boat as you… I’ve started with a wineglass grip since that was the most comfortable for me, but after a year of playing fighters and another year of using a stick, I find my execution is worse than it ought to be… things like 96 are particularly atrocious, but even a regular SRK -> FADC -> Ultra on P1 side is pretty awkward, whereas it’s a breeze on P2 side.

If you find that some moves are awkward, I think it’s probably a pretty good sign to experiment with some other grip, especially if you have a pretty bent wrist or arm, or if you find things to be inordinarly harder on either side. It’s hard to tell what will work best for you, though.


#4

I think I pretty much have the same grip as you facing the right. For backdash for me, its all thumb, 2 fingers for support, an somewhat similar for qcb (regardless of direction). Forward dash, I tend to use the very base of my two fingers, almost the palm. When I face the left however, my grip changes. Notice how your fingers have three joints in them, well when I face the right, the first joints of my 4 and pinky are on the bottom of the stick like this

_
_
O
– 4
– pinky

So when I do double qcf, im only using the fingers on top of the ball, and roll them like you were making a wave motion with two fingers. I can feel the ball slide off the edge of my second finger. Sometimes if I must, I’ll try to throw my thumb in there for support, but the results are the same.

But when i face left, its more like this, where the second joint area touches the stick base,

__2
__3
| | O

So basically when I transition from left to right (and the main purpose of moving the 4 and 5 fingers is only because of double QCF) i move my 4 and 5 fingers a little less deep.

Trying to do 96 (UF, F) like you said, could either be a thumb motion (pushing UF with thumb and two fingers, then pushing with the base of the fingers, or it could be a more web motion (using the large web between your thumb and second finger to do UF)

The thing is, the latter seems to be less efficient, and yet people who use a completely open grip style usually do this.

I feel you. I’ve been grinding with the right side with the wineglass and I still have to do stuff super slow to get it consistent, which isn’t helpful because some stuff needs to be fast. I tend to play a lot of older games, where the inputs are unforgiving. Even c.mk --> super in games like CVS2 isn’t consistent, and its only easier because I already have the down input. If I tried to do a standing normal into super on the right side, its damn near impossible in a real match, and pretty hard in training mode. From the P2 side, like you said, its a breeze. I’m not sure if this means I need to switch grips when I’m on the P1 side to do supers and stuff or not, or whether I just need to put in more hours.

And the thing about putting hours in is that practice makes permanent, not perfect. I would like as close to perfect as possible, especially since doing double qcf inputs isn’t the only thing I’ll need to do, and switching grips on the fly isn’t something I see most people doing.


#5

I think you have a good mindset as far as practicing and breaking bad habit goes. I wish I was like that a few years ago so I wouldn’t be re-learning now. There’s no wrong way to do these things but if you feel like there is any inefficiencies then just keep working at finding what is comfortable. I’m not a pro or even tournament ready but I like to win and losing because of execution errors are something I’d prefer to avoid.

For me doing supers on the P1 side I use my thumb to get that 6 while I’m already letting the stick return to neutral. One thing I find is playing 3rd strike and Alpha is a lot more unforgiving with Supers. Especially 3S doing cr.frwd > SRK > Super is hard to do. I always super with the SRK meaning I’mm missing an input or performing it too fast. Like most people will say just keep grinding shit out and you’ll get it smooth like babygirls bottom.


#6

yeah doing SRK > Super is no joke, I think it helps tyring to go back to neutral after the SRK but the timing is really tight. Even just doing cr.fwd > SRK is hard if you try to do it the non buffer way. I’ll keep grinding, but I just want to assure that I’ll have solid habits. Like, doing SRKs to the right side is still uncomfortable (relative to the left side) with the wineglass, but not so uncomfortable with an open grip (I can feel the down to down forward really tight and locked )


#7

The universal answer to which grip you should use is “use what ever is comfortable.” I believe this is wrong. No matter what grip you use, if you’re new or not used to the grip; it will feel awkward and not comfortable. You should use a grip that allows you equal execution on both sides (1P and 2P) of the screen. After a little while of using any grip, you will become comfortable using it. Use the Daigo grip.

I used to play table tennis competitively, and when new players would ask how to hold the paddle. The universal answer was the “shake-hand grip” because it allows you to hit the ball equally with your forehand and backhand. Players would feel uncomfortable with this grip, because any grip was new to them so it was natural for it to feel awkward. After playing for awhile, that grip became comfortable and natural. And they had great execution on their forehand and backhand.

I really wished people would stop telling people to do whats comfortable, and recommend what is effective… I’m recommending you an effective grip. The Daigo grip.

[media=youtube]mRnfXzax94c[/media]
06:52


#8

As I wrote in the sticky, a lot of newer players totally over blow stick grips. Most people I know whom play seriously have no idea what grip(s) they use.


#9

#10

I believe I use a grip like this no matter which stick type I use - and I’m not sure if it’s harming or helping my execution at all.

To start with, I have LONG fingers (piano player fingers - perhaps even longer than that); my index finger is about 8.75cm in length (3.25 inches) and three-quarters of an inch wide (2cm) with about the same measurements in height. It gets even worse when you factor in that my right hand has much longer fingers than my right (despite left being my dominant hand - I write left). It’s made using a pad a real hell (since the base of my thumb actually covers the entire D-Pad), so I figured using a stick would help. It hasn’t.

I use a sort of kaijuu claw grip where my index, middle, and ring fingers are wrapped around the stick (be it an American Bat type or a Japanese Sphere/Ball type), and my thumb caresses the back for some manner of support (though why this is, I don’t know) - leaving my pinky floating free, usually resting on the case next to the stick. For the buttons, only my index, middle, and ring fingers ever touch the buttons - synchronization issues tell my mind to render the pinky and thumbs unnecessary and thus, they just usually float around.

I would add how a pad makes things more complicated, but that would be going off-topic. So I’d like to ask if anyone can identify my grip type and give advice on what I can do to better it.


#11

I was using the daigo grip for a long time! I started with wineglass, then moved to daigo grip, then moved back to wineglass, all for the same damn reason: P1 side execution. I felt my P2 side execution with the daigo grip was pretty flawless.

The thing about the Daigo grip vs wineglass is that they’re extremely similar, though I find the Diago grip actually limits your flexibility a little more, though I’m not sure about that. Within the next couple days I’m just going to settle on one and go with it, but I need something to get me across the plateau.

You seem to use the Daigo grip without having your pinky under. Try moving the pinky under as if you were making a fist and the shaft of the stick was a wolverine claw between your fourth and pinky (but when executing don’t use a fist)

I find the thumb with Daigo grip is mostly used for P2 side stuff, I rarely use it on P1 side, as the down input comes from me just pushing my writing fingers downwards as opposed to pulling on the stick with my thumb, though I can put it on top for support and use it so not all the work is done with that part of my hand


#12

The reason why execution on the 2P side is great, is because all execution is done with the fingers. While, all execution on the 1P side is mainly the wrist. Only practice will help you feel comfortable on both sides, change won’t come over night. So keep using one grip and stick with it.