Official shmupmame Super Turbo thread


#2

mame’s button mapping is kind of cumbersome to use in tournament

here’s a modified build with two extra menus

also you dont have to wait 2/3 of a second for mame to register your input

Since the original developer of shmupmame is not supporting/replying on his forum, I couldn’t make any contribution to make it easier for ST tournament/practice.

OTOH the groovymame dev did the opposite, I have now attached a modified version of groovymame that does

  1. fast buttom mapping for P1 / P2
  2. fast save/load state – no prompting for slot numbers and you can easily map the extra 2 buttons on your stick to do save/load. Just turn on cheat > training mode + infinite time.

http://www.2shared.com/file/HPdJM81i/groovymame.html


3rd Strike Lag/Speed Tests
ST Gaming Setup?
#3
  • All tests are done using US turbo 2
  • shmupmame setup is stock except speed setting changed to 99%

Fei long stage time comparison

supergun

52.93 seconds

http://www.2shared.com/video/zN_XHM8N/st_us_turbo2.html


shmupmame

53.1 seconds

http://www.2shared.com/video/GE1F_hy_/shmupmame99.html


ps2 hyper street fighting

52.1 seconds

http://www.2shared.com/video/Zn8AUZg7/ps2_hsf_turbo2_feilong_stage.html


ggpo final burn alpha turbo 2

52.5 seconds

http://www.2shared.com/video/HAsBr52t/ggpo_turbo2_feilong_stage.html

ggpo final burn alpha turbo 1

53.9 seconds

http://www.2shared.com/video/PvhxYX1B/ggpo_turbo2_feilong_stage_turb.html

ggpo final burn alpha turbo 0

55.1 seconds

http://www.2shared.com/video/NwXPsC6d/ggpo_turbo2_feilong_stage_turb.html

As you will find out below, final burn alpha has 2 more frames of input lag when playing offline on a lagless CRT.

2/60 = you are deprived of 3.33% of a second to react to any moves.

With turbo speed set to turbo 1, the game is 2.67% slower overall. But it still does not feel as responsive as arcade.
With turbo speed set to turbo 0, the game is 4.95% slower overall, you have enough time to react but your input will still come out slower.

And that was for offline with lagless CRT. Most LCD has lag. Also when online lag comes into play, you can see that playing at a slower turbo setting will be better.

Crouching Round House Lag test (aka NKI Test)

  • CRT setup is tested at 800x600 resolution
  • 2.4Ghz core2duo laptop has a builtin onboard intel mobile 4 series express graphics
  • macbook air is 2012 model with i5 process and HD4000 graphics. lcd at 1440 x 900 native resolution

arcade, supergun => crt

4 frames

http://www.2shared.com/video/DXXoI0di/supergun_us_turbo2_CRT.html


shmupmame, core2duo laptop => CRT

average number 4.3

http://www.2shared.com/video/r7DeKpH4/core2duo_mobilegraphics_shmup_.html


shmupmame, macbook air => mini-displayport-to-vga => CRT

same result as core2duo laptop => CRT
average 4.3

http://www.2shared.com/video/VS5_WaGl/macbook_shmup_crt.html


mame, macbook air => mini-displayport-to-vga => CRT

mame has consistently 1 more frame than shmupmame

http://www.2shared.com/video/mWzlY4cm/macbook_mame_crt.html


shmupmame, 2012 macbook air => macbook lcd at 1440 x 900 native resolution

half of them were 4 frames and half of them were 5 frames
average 4.5

http://www.2shared.com/video/JpPFO8Nj/macbook_shmup_lcd.html


shmupmame, core2duo laptop => laptop lcd at 1280 x 1024 native resolution

http://www.2shared.com/video/1OOZX-8R/core2duo_shmup_us_turbo2_lcd_r.html

similar to macbook w/ lcd
average 4.5


shmupmame, desktop i5 2500k with radeon 6800 => laggy dell lcd at 1920x1200

6 frames

http://www.2shared.com/video/EHEFq4Nd/i5desktop_shmup_us_turbo2_lagg.html


final burn alpha (ggpo) , core2duo laptop => CRT (both fullscreen & window)

6 frames

http://www.2shared.com/video/6Ooqseee/core2duo_ggpo_us_turbo2_CRT_rh.html
http://www.2shared.com/video/LEEJo4id/core2duo_ggpo_us_turbo2_CRT_rh.html


ps2 hyper street fighting => CRT

5~6 frames

http://www.2shared.com/video/OB2xnc2I/ps2_hsf_turbo2_rh.html


more data points from my last tests a while back

xbox classic mode->asus evo LCD 6-7 frames

PS3 classic mode->asus LCD 8 frames


Best Ultimate Tech Talk Hang Out Loud Edition Season V
#4

pretty cool. Have you tried this on different machines? because I’ve heard the main problem with PC emulators is consistency in speed/lag etc… because hardware is inconsistent. That’s why my preferred offline alternatives are console solutions. Dreamcast / Console MAME.

but really I just lug around my arcade board and supergun :lol:

I would do speed comparisons myself, but I don’t have the equipment/knowledge to accurately time my arcade board vs PC on mame.

you have a guide?


#5

If the performance is as good as you say then it’s a very nice resource to have. Eventually, arcades will be less and less accessible to everyone and the game will survive if we have a setup that is the same for both training and tournament environments. Fingers crossed.


#6

Yes, it is assumed that your pc is reasonably powerful.
I forget to mention that I was using a i5 2500k with radeon 6800, which is overkilled for emulating cps2.

I tried the same test on a core2duo 2.4ghz laptop with a mobile 4 series express chip vga, the game play speed is the same.
Game play is 99% ok except when there are fireball slowdown + super, the vga is not fast enough to handle it.

Running it on macbook with 3rd gen i5 hd 4000 graphics it is as smooth as running it on my desktop even in tense situations.
I have no access to a 2nd gen i process with HD 3000 graphics but I assume that would also be sufficient.

Just make sure you have a clean windows installation and no malware adware antivirus heavy duty processes running in the background.

supergun and arcade board are easy. The problems are CRT and custom input. The latter can be solved with undamned’s cps2 but CRT will still be a big problem going forward.

Speed comparison is easy. Just recording the same stage on the same turbo speed and transfer the video to your PC (ideally 60 fps but 30 fps is ok).

Use media player classic Ctrl-G to jump to when “Fight” appears on the screen.

Mark down the seconds to the decimal place and do the same for “Time Over”. Subtract and you got the numbers.


#7

Great to see this thread. I had brought up Shmupmame a while back but didn’t see much interest:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/175214

-Jim


#8

I can’t like this thread enough.


#9

I thought MAME didn’t use the video card, all software rendering? So if that’s the case your video card isn’t the bottleneck.


#10

Thanks for bringing this to our attention bro. I just had a quick round and it instantly felt better than the FBA GGPO uses. Night and day difference IMO


#11

Shmup Mame is pretty cool. I use it for all my shmupping needs. Should be great for fighters as well.


#12

Greetings,

Some good news. I did two tests tonight.

First using supergun -> crt, US Turbo 2

The crouching RH comes out majority of the time at 4 frames, with a few 3 and 5.
I would say the average number is 4

Raw footage here
http://www.2shared.com/video/DXXoI0di/supergun_us_turbo2_CRT.html

The reason why the numbers are inconsistent is because of frame skipping

http://combovid.com/?p=5002

The 2nd test I did was crappy core2duo laptop with mobile 4 series express graphics output to CRT at 800x600 resolution. using shmupmame with 99% speed setting (everything else is stock) on windows 7 with aero disabled and mame running at full screen.

The crouching RH also comes out majority of the time at 4 frames, with a few 5.
I would say the average number is 4.3

http://www.2shared.com/video/r7DeKpH4/core2duo_mobilegraphics_shmup_.html

I’ll do more test this weekend.
I plan to do

desktop i5 2500k with radeon 6800 => CRT
desktop i5 2500k with radeon 6800 => laggy dell lcd
2012 macbook => macbook lcd screen
core2duo laptop with mobile 4 series express graphics => laptop lcd screen

will keep you guys posted


#13

Good stuff. Can you describe how you are getting the output from your 6800 to your CRT? Also, what kind of CRT are you using?

Thanks,
Jim


#14

What we need to do now is what DGV and I talked about in a thread on here one time, and make a PS/2 Keyboard Arcade stick to avoid USB input lag.


#15

soooo for us less informed, why would you use this particular emulator over regular mame? you can adjust the emulation speed in it too, in fact in the slider controls the main cpu is already at 74% by default, the significance of which i don’t know but if i crank it up to 100% the game speeds up quite a bit.


#16

This version of MAME was designed by the shmup community for the sole purpose of reducing input delay. So for all intents and purposes, their version of mame works perfectly with what fighting game enthusiasts look for in an emulator as well.


#17

The readme explains it best…


#18

updated second post with a modified version of shmupmame with easier input mapping


#19

Man, I headed down this path a little while back. Its not difficult to do, from a building perspective…BUT its difficult to locate a modern motherboard that has a ps/2 port that isn’t tied to its USB controller.

-Jim


#20

yeah. im waiting for undamn’s a board…

yeah. im actually stockpiling CRTs lol.

but really most lagless non CRT displays are really computer monitors. and I think there are plenty of Lagless Analog (RGB)-> VGA converters out there to use with ST boards…


#21

I gave up on the vaporware known as undamned’s board. I use a MAK Strike supergun (small and cheap) running RGB into a Sony PVM-20L5 CRT. Super Turbo looks amazing on it…and of course there is 0 lag.

-Jim