Official SRK SFxT Balance Discussion Thread

I tell ya’ what, you had me thinking about playing him lol.

This. I want to see Tokido with Akuma Ogre.

As for my issues with this… (not just on balance, more on the game in gen)

Rolls… invincibility is pretty nuts.
Having all the strings and such close up is more vf or marvel than Tekken. Pretty cool though considering how DEFENSIVE 4 is with a lot of the cast.

Tekken stepping is pretty absent (we’re talking things like bdc, dwd, shortened wd, etc) may be a good thing though. It would be bad news for sf characters.

>.< sf4 links seem tougher, actually. Game used to look pretty anime/jojo’s until that feature was put in.

Also, nobody guard cancels. Do that, please. It will make mind games better and make people think twice about pressuring without some sort of gaps to bait things.

Rolento’s new glitch. no. no. no.

The policy on dlc characters. The stuff is on the disc already. That’s wrong. They should be unlockables or something. It’s a cheap money grub. I remember DLC being like a potion or horse armor in Oblivion or some outfit or something. This forces you to buy it if you want the whole game. Dlc should really be like extra sugar in your tea- good, tempting, but you don’t NEED it for the complete game. I don’t want it to get to the point where we have paid DLC options menus and DLC dashing. -.- gotta buy em all, onocapcom!

Gems don’t seem to effect the game enough in some ways, and in others too much. Easy or power gems with grapplers makes them really nuts, while speed with steve makes him monstrous. Others, like auto block, are just kinda op. And you have to buy a lot of them. Game systems should be well tuned in development. Granted, you can buy what you want, but still… What happened to just being good enough to unlock things? Why pay for a part of the game that is a part of it’s system?

No left/right unblockables. So… Yeah there goes something awesome with cross assault.

The auto blocking in general.

Did eighting or someone develop this?

Honestly it should go into sweep. Or another normal. Like in ST. If they make it so you can’d do a canned launcher, whatever. Players will just have to link into specials that launch.

And you are gonna so love sak when capcom… sells her to you.
Geez capcom, schoolgirl slavery?

i think ken have better matchs up than gat just for the simple fact that he beats a lot of tekken characters due to him having better fundamental tools ( shitty as they are ) and lol tatsu to exploit this games lack of AA’s. and he doesn’t lose to some characters that gat lose to such as juri for example.

i don’t understand how you can make a tier list when people aren’t playing the game right.

i could understand ranking them solely on ease of use over effectiveness, but i think it would be better to tier teams instead of characters.

Unfortunately I don’t think a tier list of 1806 teams (3612 if you count reversed layout) is exactly going to be the most efficient system of operating a tier list in the world.
Ranking teams in general is a far bigger stretch in difficulty than ranking individual characters, although a character’s general abilty to synergise with other cast members (be it through being able to safely tag cancel, add damage to and their ability to extend comboes etc) should definitely be considered as a major point towards the placements of characters on the tiers due to the general synergy of characters having such a major impact on their overall strength, it is one of the main reasons that Ken is so powerful in this game for example.

of course, but if they did it in marvel 2, then we can do it for SFxT.

just use the most popular teams and most successful teams to start then start adding less popular teams that have placed high in tournament.

i do agree with you. ability to be placed in any team is and should be an important part of tiers.

It’s a bad idea. A “team tier list” is already cumbersome. Now imagine making a team matchup chart…

How the hell are you going to evaluate teams that nobody plays? Hugo/Paul vs Steve/Bob. Is that MU 5-5 or 6-4? How the fuck would you know… And does the MU change if Paul and Bob are on point? Like I said, it’s stupid and it’s too much hard work for a tier list/matchup chart that will clearly be flawed and inaccurate.

And a tier list based on tournament results? How will that be useful? All it will do is encourage people to pick up popular characters/teams and you’ll end up killing diversity while discouraging players to try and learn underused characters. Just because a bunch of top players decided to main Ken and Rolento doesn’t mean Yoshimitsu can’t be just as viable.

Tier lists are stupid and never do any good. All they do is encourage people to cry for nerfs and buffs because nobody wants to be bottom tier and nobody wants characters to be on top. Matchup charts are useful for tournament players and for counter pickers but that’s about it.

you are not READING what i posted.

i didn’t say a list based on tournament results. I said a list of team rankings starting with the teams that already get far in tournament. we’re not going to waste time discussing the potential of a yoshimitsu/kuma team when we can just work our way from the TOP meaning top tournament results

I think the argument Vulcan Hades was making (feel free to jump in if I’m wrong) is that a tier list at this point in a game’s life cycle tends to do more harm than good. As things currently stand, there’s already a lack of variety within the top finishers at EVO qualifiers. Compiling a tier list will only serve to exacerbate the issue, driving people toward perceived top tiers while the rest of the cast is left unexplored. I don’t agree that this is the way things should be, but keep in mind this can be a cutthroat, win-at-all-costs community, and if people think that certain characters will give them an edge, they’ll pick them (yes, I know there are plenty of exceptions, but for the sake of argument, let me paint in broad strokes here).

Remember, the SF characters have been in this engine for years, and though they play a little differently from their previous incarnations, many of their general playstyles/tricks are intact, whereas it’s going to take a lot more time to fully explore the Tekken side of the cast. A tier list top-loaded with SF characters (consistent with tourney results) will herd the weak-minded and ultra-competitive players away from the unexplored members of the cast, skewing the results even further.

I don’t think anyone meant you any disrespect - it’s just that a few of us really like this game and want to make sure it gets a fair shake.

Cheers.

This is the truth, I tried to make a post like this but my english dictionary isn’t that good.

i know a tier list is bad, especially right now.

i was making a point that an individual character tier list kind of misses the point of the game. you could have two characters that are average or below avg and cover each other’s weaknesses.

great post btw

Juri may be the only match where Ken does better. I would say alot of Tekken chars they beat equally. But I’ll be damned if you are trying to tell me Ken beats Kazuya, Jin and Heihachi worse then Sagat. Or any grappler for that matter.

Though I don’t see why she wouldn’t beat him. Her fb is hella good footsie tool and her dive is equally effective vs his hadoukens as they are vs gats tiger shots. Her low forward buffer into fb store keeps ken honest with his step kick. Yeah not seeing how this is even and certainly not seeing any advantage Ken has. Guess tatsu isn’t an advantage because it’s not something that specifically takes advantage of something she lacks nor does it truly limit her options.

I actually feel bad for Ken players. That move is so powerful and the only thing keeping him in the game. Capcom is going to shit all over it and he will get scraps in return and call it balance e.g Sagat’s nerfs in Super but he got Angry Scar and they called it a day. Jokes imo.

As it stands right now, I would call all those guys you mentioned A tier. (Ken, Gat, Gief, Rolento). But yeah, when Capcom takes a bat to that air Tatsu… IDK what will happen to Ken.

Also, a tier list right now isn’t bad. It helps focus discussion and express thoughts.

What is wrong, is the assumption that a tier list made right now is right…

yea, you’re right about gat shitting over grapplers harder than ken ever will. and i don’t think ken beat kaz. but he does do well vs the other 2 tekken characters that your mentioned. and yea, once tatsu is gone ken will be around asuka tier for sure.

Maybe the will beef up his ground game.

I say let him combo off one of his overheads, that would solidify the “aggressive Ryu” thing. Maybe more frame advantage on a CH step kick too.

I’m just throwing stuff out there though…I’d hope they give him something if they take away tatsu.

Don’t even think Asuka is that bad. :\ “Around Asuka tier” doesn’t make sense if it’s trying to be an insult.

They are going to nerf tatsu, but I’m not sure they really knew what kind of character they wanted Ken to be in this game. I’d like to see some walk speed buffs to a few characters, Ken can probably get one of those. I dunno.

I don’t think they need to nerf tatsu that much, though. Keep letting it lead into combos and all that. It just needs a slightly bigger hurtbox under his feet. You can still use it to cross up/not cross up in some spots, it just needs to be more easily hit out of the air.

I think in a hypothetical version of the game where walk speeds are slightly better and throw range has increased/is faster, Ken won’t be too bad.

That’s a good point. I’ve always considered Asuka low tier, but not shit tier. Still, she lacking in very obvious ways.

I’d like to see walk speeds buffed across the board personally.

i actually like that idea of him getting an combo off of izuna kick. and obviously his staple ground normals need to be buffed as well. and ken definitely can use a walk speed buff. with these, i would gladly trade tatsu.

It’s sad we will most likely never see a walk speed buff to any of characters.
You have no idea how bad it felt to pop in SFxT for the first time and start playing as Paul Phoenix and then I saw his walkspeed and tears

Ken needs crazy kicks back. Make it happen Capcom.

Air tatsu as people have said just needs a wider hurtbox. It sucks that about half the cast has to take a legit risk to stop such an obviously telegraphed move. Ken is wierd though cuz his close ranged block normals are pretty buff in terms of frame data. Close mk is like +5 on block or something but there is no kara throw or anything and his overheads are like a nerfed version of Kazuya so idk wtf Capcom was smoking. So ok you get close to sumone and…yeah then what happens? Where is the threat? You are better off just buffering pokes in luancher/boost combo and fishing with air tatsu. I say make all his command normals cause stagger stun on CH and give more frame advantage on overhead. Make his dps stronger then ryus with better invincibility and idk just make him more interesting to play. There needs to be a reason to use him because as it stands Kens whole match-ups boil down too, can this char shut down air tatsu? If not then he prolly wins if no then he prolly loses. Badly.