Official SRK SFxT Balance Discussion Thread

Well, EX Pin still isn’t frame 1 invul. But yeah, she’s pretty good.

Hell, just mashing the back counter during a guardstring is alot harder to deal with than it probably should be.

i’m guilty of this lol. i do this a lot vs characters who jab pressure a lot like cammy. but it’s not something to abuse obviously. but nonetheless, it’s a option.

No offense, but that’s terrible advice. Mashing counter is just as bad as mashing DP. A smart player will start to bait that and with Juri’s low health(900), that’s just a bad idea. How eager will you be to counter once you’ve been baited for half your life?

Juri is still free to throws, EX Pin is bad, can be safe jumped, is -12 on block, and cost bar. Akuma can combo into knockdown with almost everything, he also gets a very easy safe jump set up by chaining into sweep. You’re telling me no roll is fine because I can counter, which is a guess that leaves you wide open. Counter being 1 frame takes her wake up from horrible to bad.

It’s gives her an options against strikes.

Also consider that OSing doesn’t work the same way in SFxT as it does in SF4 (there’s alot of reasons for this).

Also, consider alot of characters don’t have a good way to easily punish the teleport back, (and other’s don’t have a good way to punish the teleport up).

I didn’t say that Juri’s wakeup suddenly became good. But she has an option against strikes, which is a far cry from what she had in SF4. Also, the throws in this game make them significantly less threatening that in SF4.

It’s not really about punishing the teleport, but rather the attempt to counter. Up teleport can be punished though, with anti air normals and specials or air to air normals. I still think throws against Juri are good, even if throws are bad in this game overall.

The point I was originally trying to make was not about Juri’s wake up being good or bad, but that Im fine with rolls and the move away from vortex characters(and I played Akuma from Vanilla SF4-AE and SFxT). I don’t mind if they tweak rolls, but I wouldn’t like getting rid of them flat out.

To me, the reason for the “Vortex’s” in SF4 was less that you couldn’t tech roll, but more that the hitboxing in that game was not very good.

I mean, GG is known for disgusting wakeup games, but it never felt as cheap as the vortex stuff does in SF4. I’ve always chalked it up to the fact that SF4 relies so much on oki mixups being totally ambiguous.

Personally, I would prefer something closer to the SF3 tech roll, or giving the other player the option to do something about the roll (throw is my favorite choice).

The vortex was a response to the strong wake up options in SF4. In a game where reversals could be made safe on block and auto corrects were easy the best way to avoid both was to jump in such a way that you couldn’t hit with those reversals. So the characters that either had tools to flat out stuff wake up options or had the tools to get around them tended to have a leg up in offense.

To be honest though outside of Seth I personally don’t think any one character’s “vortex” is super outrageous. Most people just panic and do all the wrong things to get out then wonder why they lose.

See everyone complaining about Hugo damage, jab pressure, and Ryu’s frame data in SFxT.

It isn’t just Seth that’s the problem in SF4. Viper and Rufus can easily and quickly put you into repeated 50/50 situations with relatively little risk to them and massive reward, especially considering how big a factor stun is for those two characters. Akuma can also accomplish this. To be honest, the vortex is the lamest part of SF4 for me, it’s braindead to do (relatively speaking, obviously you need a good level of execution and situational awareness to do it in the first place), it makes matches look boring and very similar, and it’s not fun to play, on either side. Spamming dive kicks with Rufus isn’t a particularly stimulating experience for either player.

When it happens on stream, the main entertainment value comes from commentators speculating as to how many successful dive/burn kicks are going to land off one knockdown, and then getting hype when stun happens. But it’s sort of just hype because yeah, it’s a stun. Not because of any inspiring play or reads on either part.

I like SF4 a lot though, and I get through this because you can limit the power of that tactic with good play and preparation, and because the game itself is hella fun. Much like SFxT, if people gave it a chance.

If the Vortex didn’t reset itself, then it would be less of an issue.

Rolls do prevent that, but they have much more wide reaching implications. It’s a tough spot, the person on their back should be at a significant disadvantage, but when it reaches SF4 Vortex levels, it just kinda fells like the other guy is playing solitaire, and that’s not particularly interesting from a gameplay standpoint.

Rolento has a very good answer to rolls, his j.mk is very ambigeous.

An offensive game is a game where the offense takes fewer risks than the defense. If you are worried about risk free set ups then don’t get put into that situation where they can use them.

To be honest Viper and Rufus don’t scare me as much because their mix ups are not extremely hard to block. In fact I will say once you get use to Viper her BS isn’t that strong, but what makes her strong is the damage/stun she can dish out. Its the fact you get nailed by one attack and die is what makes her so annoying. Seth is the only character whose mix up game is damn near impossible to read because number of tools he can use at any given time.

I’ve played against players where all I did was the same safe set up again and again yet the other player refuses to block and then complains about the vortex afterwards. Its like “I haven’t used a single mix up, its your fault for getting hit by it!” A lot of the problems players have it they don’t understand any of the characters options and get destroyed by it subsequently.

And this is coming from a Viper main.

This post times a BILLION. Fighting a preset guide of ambiguious option selects is NOT fun. It’s a chore.

Actually, I only play Viper in UMvC3. I can’t stand her in SF4.

SF4 in general just rubs me the wrong way, but that’s a personal thing and not really the subject of this thread.

Are people still complaining about tech rolls, jab pressure, weak anti-airs, slow walkspeed and big stage sizes? lol

Come on guys, put a little effort in the lab. I’m sure you’ll figure stuff out eventually. And please try something else other than “UNTECHABLE KNOCKDOWN > JUMP IN SF4 STYLE LOL WTF THEY ROLLED OUT OF THE WAY FUCK YOU CAPCOM.”

[details=Spoiler]Hint #1: Roll resets and ambiguous cross-rolls are your friends.
Hint #2: You don’t have to end all your combos with a knockdown.
Hint #3: EX CADC is underrated
Hint #4: Some type of knockdowns encourage quickstand.
Hint #5: Characters that struggle to get in on you are more likely to roll forward.
Hint #6: Jumping on a knocked down cornered opponent is stupid. Back away to keep them cornered no matter what.
Hint #7: You don’t have to press buttons or jump to maintain pressure in this game.
Hint #8: Throws are good.
[/details]

While I take your point that people shouldn’t mindlessly complain about tech rolls because they think they’re playing SF4, I gotta say that FlyingVe was actually trying to have a serious discussion about it, not just randomly screaming abuse at the game.

There are a lot of screamers out there, though, so keep your eyes peeled. :smiley:

I wasn’t talking to FlyingVe. Sorry if it seemed that way…

I just noticed the discussion was about SF4 vs SFxT knockdowns so I figured someone complained about rolls again… :slight_smile: My last post wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular.

Kazuya IMO really shows how poorly put together the Tekken cast was. Everyone else just seems so made to be gimmick on purpose.

Viper is hilariously overrated these days. Definitely one of the games best characters but people talk about her on like Vanilla Akuma/Sagat shit sometimes and it makes me laugh. Viper being good more so has to do with the game generally just not making the characters cheap enough and forcing balance through lack of options and scare factor amongst the characters. SFIV is just lack of options the game basically. Fundamentally the game engine just doesn’t allow you to be very creative.

Why should they not complain about that? Just like with any fighting game…those are basic things that make or break a game when it comes to what feels interesting and fun for them in the mechanics. After playing games like Super Turbo and 3rd Strike for a long time, it’s hard to like games where the footsies are really slow and not as tight amongst the cast.

The fighting game scene has always been about people liking different things. If everybody liked the exact same things there would be no other games or variety of games.

Yeah…those issues alone don’t make SFxT a bad game competitively. I mean as long as a game doesn’t only allow 2 characters in the meta or literally has game breaking glitches all over the place…it’s more or less sound competitively. It’s just there’s a lot of things that dictate whether or not a game is generally interesting competitively for people and that can vary very much across games.

… And that’s precisely why complainers should take a chill pill and adapt. :slight_smile: Stop wanting this game to be like SF4, Marvel, third strike, Alpha or ST. Embrace it as a new game with different mechanics. Or just don’t play it. No one will care.

I personally hope they don’t make important changes. It’s way too early for that and people have barely scratched the surface of this game so they have no idea what they’re asking for most of the time. Better AAs and better walkspeed across the board? No rolls and smaller stages? It’s like people don’t realize why those “flaws” are actually good things.

There are advantages to having slower walkspeed and “poor” dashes/backdashes. I know I wouldn’t trade Yoshimitsu’s dash and backdash for anything in the world. They are useful for other things than escaping pressure believe it or not. Most people just have no clue yet.

And the Okizeme is far more interesting and diverse than SF4 imo.

The only thing they really need to balance are the gems. The rest is ok. I just find it a little annoying that the people who demand important changes are in general the ones who play this game the least.

We all acknowledge it’s a different game and things are and should be different. Doesn’t keep things in this game from being fucking retarded, rolls, walkspeed, and stage size especially.

That’s really not what Vulcan Hades was saying. You’re implying that he was making the argument that because rolls, walkspeed and stage size are different and new in this game, they’re fine. That’s not the case.

He was justifying why he thought walkspeed, backdashes, rolls and the stage sizes have their place in SFxT’s system, whereas you’re just saying that you think they’re “fucking retarded” without making any sort of point.

We know that game mechanics can be broken even if they’re new, and even if they have some sort of rationale behind them. That’s not what’s up for debate. What we’re discussing is whether these mechanics are broken/unbalanced, and more importantly, why.