# (OLD) Ken General Discussion Thread (Combos, Techniques, etc.)

#21

Ok guys, help me here. I asked this question a long time ago, but I didnt quite get it. So please tell me now if Im right or wrong about reading frame data.
Im interested in the “start up” and “hit adv” sections.
Like Edma said, s.lp ( close or far ) gives you +2 frame advantage when compared to c.lp. Is that because s.lp had hit adv = +7 and c.lp has hit adv = +5 ?
Also, the reason why Ken can do a c.mk after any of these lps, is because the “start up” for his c.lp is 4 frames? ( since you have at least +5 of hit adv, you can do any move after c.lp that has 5 frames of start up or less ? )
If true, will this be possible just by reading the frame data : s.mk ( +7 hit adv ), c.mp ( 5 start-up,+3 hit adv ), HP srk ( 3 start up, link, no combo ) ? … I just invented this combo at random to see if Im right or wrong.

#22

Sure, no reason that won’t combo. It’s probably not the most practical combo though. Might as well use c. mk instead of c. mp since it comes out faster and goes out farther.

#23

Cool. Now for the final question about reading frame data ( and with this I will know for sure how to properly interpret the numbers ).
About Ken’s hurricane kick: if qcb+lk connects your opponent still will have +5 hit advantage over you? ( since you are left with -5 ). Meaning that if done against another Ken, they can just do an HP srk ( 3 start up frames ) asap and hit you ? ( or any move that has 5 frames for start-up or less ).

EDIT: Is there a number in the chart that show you the number of invincibility frames in every move if applicable ? ( like Ken’s srks ).

EDIT: If Ken does an mk overhead ( -2 hit adv ) against Zangief at close range, will he be able to do a regular SPD ( 2 start-up frames ) and you will always get grabbed ?

EDIT 3 ( damn ! ): Can somebody please explain the remaining frame data for the moves and/or sections that couldnt be translated ?
For example Ken’s ultra start-up : [ 1+*9 ]

#24

Nice job.

#25

Can anyone tell me the properties of Ken’s Hadouken? I’ve canceled Ryu’s Hadouken into Ultra because of the juggle property, though I’m almost certain it wont be the same for ken.

#26

Ehh Ken’s has more startup, more recovery and his EX fireball doesn’t knock down.

Don’t think you’d be able to do an ultra after it. His fireballs are slower too (I think).

#27

:wonder: This is quite confusing.

I can see that hadouken has start up time 14 frames. Does that mean that in order to link a hadou I must first use a move that leaves me at least +14 hit adv? Cause that’s impossible. Yet I’ve seen j.HK c.MK hadou a lot of times.

And how can you possibly do MP->HP? MP leaves you at -2 hit adv. and HP has start up 6 :wonder:

#28

re: confusing

Short of a FA, “linking” a Hadouken is not likely, but “canceling” into a Hadouken is all good.

a j.HK c.MK hadou works because the last frames of the c.mk (it’s recovery) is “canceled” by the (startup) frames of the Hadouken. Although the j.HK and c.MK were “linked”…

and MP->HP… something about “target” combos… ie it works because it was spec programed in.

re: no FB into ultra

while not likely cost effective an Ex.Hadou FACD Ultra might just work (if you wanted to burn 3/4 of a super to get a nerfed Ultra confirmed)

#29

Thank you

#30

Anyone have invincibility frame info on each of his uppercuts?

#31

How does Stunning work?

I mean Ive seen people get hit with a 10+hit combo and be fine and Ive seen others in the middle of a round get hit once and be stunned

#32

bump

this needs to be stickied

#33

Ken: General Discussion (Combos, Techniques, Strats, etc)

Moves:

Special Normals

Step Kick ( :r: :mk: )

This is Ken’s best normal, and arguably the best normal in the game. This normal is used to lock people down. Its quick, has good priority, and covers a good amount of ground. This also sets many follow ups up.

Thunder Kick ( :r: :hk: )

This is like thunder kick only its an overhead, and WAY slower. Its good for the occasional Mix-up, but is NOT to be abused. Do yourself a favor and dont try to meaty it either.

Thunder Fake ( :r: :hk: HOLD )

Its a fake Thunder Kick. Ken takes a step, then recovers. Also ok to use OCCASIONALLY. It could set up some things.

Heel Spike ( :l: :mk: )

This is Thunder Kick, but way faster. The catch is there isnt a step before the overhead, so you have to be close. Its good to use during block strings, but I dont recomend anything else besides that. It has pretty decen recovery aswell.

Target Combo ( cl. :mp:, :hp: )

This chains 2 normals. People usually use it as a punisher, but sometimes it will whiff. Also cl. :hk: is better to use due to the damage scaling in the game.

Special Moves

-Hadoken is a fireball that Ken uses for spaceing and combos. The power of the punch changes the speed of the fireball. :lp: being the slowest, and :hp: being the fastest.

EX Hadoken ( :qcf: :p: :p: )

• EX Hado turns his fireball into 2 hits. Its used in combos and zoneing. Its also used to neutralize other character’s EX fireballs, or going through a normal one. If it goes through a normal one,then your fireball absorbs it, leaving one more hit in your fireball. EX fireball also increases in speed slightly.

Every fireball ( Even EX ones ) have the same start up frames. * See more in Ken frame Data thread.

Shoryuken ( :dp: :p: )

• Shoryuken is a rising uppercut used to knock people out of the air. It can be used both Defensivly and Offensivly. Every punch has a different version of the Shoryuken. They all have different uses:

:lp: : 1 hit uppercut. Usually used for quick wake up or quick anti air attack
:mp: : 2 hit uppercut. This is Ken’s most power normal uppercut This is his best normal anti-air option as well if you get both hits on the opponent.
:hp: : 3 hit uppercut. This Shoryu has the most range on ground or in air. This is most commonly used for his B&B combo, punishers, or to cancel into Ultra. It can be used as an anti-air, but Ken’s best option is still the :mp: version.

EX Shoryuken ( :dp: :2p: )

• 4 hit uppercut. This uppercut is VERY powerful, and is commonly used in punisher combos. Its also Ken’s BEST anti-air option by far if you get all 4 hits.

Tatsumaki Senpukyaku ( :qcb: :k: )
Tatsu is a spin kick that sends Ken foward. This is a big part of Ken’s mix-up game. The recovery for the tatsu is so good, when you land after hitting the opponent, your almost always safe depending one the situation or character. This sets up many possibilities.

EX Tatsumaki Senpukyaku :qcb: :2k:
EX Tatsu increases recovery/speed/distance of the move.

*Tatsu, if timed correctly, can go through fireballs. This is a good way to get in the opponent’s face and start Ken’s mix-up shinanigans.
*Tatsu is also an armor breaking move.

EX Air Tatsumaki Senpukyaku ( :qcb: :2k: )
This is the only air move Ken has. Air tatsu is very fast and has amazing recovery. Its is commonly used for rush down purposed and cross-ups. It can take you right to myour opponent’s face from anywhere in the screen.

Super Combo:

Shoryu Reppa: ( :qcf: :qcf: :p: )
This Super Combo makes Ken do 2 Shoryukens that combo. Its a well Damaging super aswell. The most players usually canel it out of a shoryu.

Ultra Combo:

Shinryuken: ( :qcf: :qcf: :3p: )
This Ultra combo has 2 versions.

“Full Version” : Ken hits with a light shoryu, does a kick combo, then the Shinryuken. This is the most damaging version of his Ultra.

Partical Ultra : Just Shinryuken. This usually happens when its used as an anti-air, or cancelled from a :hp: Shoryu. It is the less damaging version of his ultra. It is VERY common, so dont worry if it happens.

Focus Attack: Ken has a pretty decent Focus Attack. It has decent distance, and decent speed. This is a great thing to have in your Ken’s game. Its great for Tatsu set ups, as well as a FULL ULTRA set up for max damage.

Techniques:

Kara Throw: This is Ken’s most powerful technique, and a big part of his game. A Kara cancel is when you cancel a normal with a throw/special move from a normal. In this case, Ken’s Step Kick will be cancelled with his throw.

Why: To increase his range of his throw. This makes his mix-up game dangerous.

This technique must be done in the beginning frames of the Step Kick. So it must be done very quick.

Kara Focus : This is Karaing Ken’s Step Kick with his focus attack.

Why: Focus Attacks are also used to absorb fireballs from distances. When Ken cant keep up with a fireball war, he needs to get in. This makes Ken close ground faster, and get in as fast as possible. By doing the Kara Focus into a foward dash, you would be covering a significant amount of ground.

Kara EX Air Tatsu: This is Karaing a jumping :hk: with an EX Air Tatsu. It makes the Tatsu move a much longer range. Even when that tatsu is finished, Ken still floats in the direction the tatsu went in. Its used to get close quick, or run away.

Combos:

B&B/Hit confirm combo: Crouching :lk:, Crouching :lp:, :hp: Shoryuken

Cross-up hit confirm Combos:
cross-up :mk:, Crouching :lk:, Crouching :lp:, :hp: Shoryuken

cross-up :mk:, Crouching :lk:, Crouching :lp:, Crouching :mk: , Hadoken

Punisher Combos:
Close :hk: , EX Shoryuken/Shoryuken

Close :hk: , EX Tatsu/Tatsu

Hit confirm Tatsu Set ups:
Crouching :lk:, Crouching :lp:, Standing :lp:, Crouching :mk:, EX Tatsu

Crouching :lk:, Crouching :lp:, Crouching :mk: , Tatsu/ EX Tatsu

*All on standing opponents

Crouching :lk:, Standing :lp: , Crouching :hp:, Tatsu***

*** this combo should be incorperated in all Ken games. Not only does is do better damage then other hit conforms, but it also raises the character from the crouching position so you can tatsu them up. But it only works on certain characters.

Works
Fei Long
Gouken
Sagat
Rufus
Abel
Gief
Bison
Sakura
Rose
Gen

Doesn’t Work
Blanka
Cammy
Chun Li
Guile
El Fuerte
E.Honda
Dhalsim
Balrog
C.Viper
Vega
Shotos

ABOUT COMBOING HP SHORYU INTO FULL ULTRA

Connecting the full ultra is ALL about the fierce shoryu. The first hit of the shoryu has to juggle. When does this happen?

-During a certain stage of a crumble
-Counter Hit
-Anti-air fierce shoryu.

It has nothing to do with how high the character pops up.

So no, you cant get the full ultra during a combo.

Will be updated soon

#34

You mentioned that Tatsu’s are a big part of his mixup… How do they compare to Tatsu’s in 3rd strike. From my experience, Tatsu’s were a big no-no in that game. Also, do you happen to have a link detailing Ken’s Tatsu Mixup? If you have one handy that is.

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. I tried searching this one out but have been unsuccessful.

#35

Some good examples from Ed.

EX tatsu is better in SFIV because you can hit confirm it, its safer on block then 3rd Strike, are more possibilities. Plus there were better things Ken had in Third Strike anyway. Way better things.

#36

It looks like I have a long way to go. Thank you, those videos were VERY helpful. I haven’t seen these kinds of setups on XBL at all.

#37

I was not aware ken could kara focus. Are there any video’s of that technique being done properly? His kara has a very big range and it would be dope to see how players are manipulating it.

#38

I’ll try one final time. :nunchuck:

So it seems to me that cr.hp is what stands out for ken.

I used to do cr.lk, st.lp, st.lp, cr.mk, tatsu(hk, ex) until I the other day got my hands on the game again and tried some more stuff.

The BEST combos against st.opp. are hands down:

cr.lk, st.lp, cr.hp, tatsu(hk/ex) or cr.lk, st.lp, cr.mk, srk(ex pref.)

These 2 babies, especially the cr.hp, tatsu does tons of dmg + stun. In fact, I was so surprised I tried something simple with ken, and guess what!? It worked!

100% stun on Akuma! And IIRC it did 870 stun dmg.

#39

Oh, also, some CH-stuff.

1. HP Shoryuken (1st or 2nd hit) -> / FADC -> Dash Shinryuken (clean hit)

2. close st. MK -> / (link) Shinryuken (clean hit)

3. cr. MP -> / (link) cr. MK xx EX Hadouken/hp srk/hk tatsu etc etc.

4. Can work on any character other than Ryu, Ken, Blanka, Boxer and Akuma. Really hard to do Chun Li, Guile, Balrog, Sagat, and Abel.

Thanks to Chunli1+ATG for sharing the Arcadia information.

Also…

1. twd+mk -> cr.mk xx srk/hado

And now for my question…

Ok, I’ve been told this:

lp/lk on CH = +1
mp/mk/hp/hk on CH = +3

1. twd + hk -> hp srk!

Now for my question! This thing combos on ch! On hit it’s supposed to be -1.

After a couple of tests it is proven that it idd is -1 on hit. And yet, hp srk and cr.lk/cr.lp combos from it on ch!?

Edit: Nvm lol. hp/hk is +4 on CH.

Edit: Hmm… And yet cr.hp cr.hp doesn’t link on CH with sagat? I need to check this up more thoroughly.

The big question I have atm is: does sf4 have a general rule for CH or not!?

Any help is much appreciated!

#40

i did some testing today, and it seems like:

counterhit light hits: +2
counterhit medium & hard hits: +4

prove me wrong ^^

tested with abel, sagat and chun.