One Button Special Moves


#1

How do people feel if special moves where made to be as simple as one button press?

Just be clear that I can perform specials no problem but when introducing friends to games like Street fighter it’s always such a massive headache trying to explain special moves where as when introducing them to say Soul Caliber or Tekken it’s generally much easier.

I also understand the mentality that if people want to play these games they would get good at it but having fun makes people want to get good and being able to perform special moves is fun.

There are obvious examples of this i.e. simple mode in MVC3 and basically pressing forward and special in DBZ Budokai 3. Also the DS version of SSF4 you can do it but that’s slightly different to what I mean in that certain moves i.e charge moves are clearly too good like this since they where never meant to be performed to quickly.

So again I’m not asking for this to become a reality nor am I complaining I’m just curious as to what effects it might have to a game that was designed in this way? Mostly 360 esque moves/any kind of command grab. In what way would this make the game better or worse.

Thanks for your time, hopefully this is in the right place and not a waste of time.


#2

BlazBlue


#3

as long as people don’t try to take that shit into tournys or online, they can do whatever they want at home.
but i wouldn’t advise it.


#4

Well… the assist button and many normals in the Vs games are basically one button specials.


#5

Thanks for the reply’s people.

I really don’t want to give the impression that I’m just fannying about, so yeah it’s appreciated.

I am not that familiar with blazblue and will look into that in a second but I believe that’s also a simple mode is it not?

I’m mainly concerned about 0 frame command grabs. I could understand how things like projectiles can be worked and also things like Shoryukens (Taking into account the time it takes to put in the motion being a factor on the moves viability) but I’m still kind of in the dark about 360 or 720 grabs.

I mean people can do standing 720’s in high level play and like in SSF4 during block strings so I mean there’s kind of the applications are the same but would it really be horribly bad if it where just assigned to a button press, with a whiff animation and set amount of time before you can do the next one (not massively long mind you say 2-3 Frames) or would they need to have start up to be deemed fair?

I’m really only talking about the limited knowledge I have in fighting games but the mechanics interest me and this is something I really want to understand.

Thanks again to any replys!


#6

Bla bla bla it’s not about the input but about the time it takes to do it that fits the special. If you want a 1 button dragon punch, as it is it will turn the game into a competition of reactions rather than predicting, so you’ll have to change the properties of the move which will make turn into completely different move anyways.


#7

Do you mean like this? [media=youtube]lNqt3vDCz0E[/media]


#8

Well yes that’s exactly what I mean when I talked about Shoryuken’s having a traditionally diffucult input which ties in with there viability in terms of an anti air.

Also I don’t mean taking a game that doesn’t have one button inputs and making them so but I mean what if a game had all it’s specials designed to be that way, what would it take to make certain moves work?

Again I stress that Fireballs I think most people can agree are fairly simple to work into that design but things like Upper cut’s, 360/720 command grabs and then also things like supers would be tricky.

Kind of a bad example because I did just say not using existing moves but let’s say you had Abels Ultra 1, it needs two quarter circle forward motions and cause to do this move (Either with a good read in which case time isn’t really a factor or on reaction) now let’s say that it’s on reaction would the fact that it was 1 button press mean that you would have to change the start up of the move so that it came out later?

Would that totally ruin the move? Even if the amount of start up was directly proportionate to the time it takes to input two quarter circle forward motions?

I would have to say yes, but I can’t say the same thing about command grabs since we all know how much worse they are when they aren’t instant but how would you get around the fact that a 360 motion takes longer to input that 1 button or 1 button plus a direction.

Thanks again


#9

I think a special move button would be interesting, such as fireball + S, dp +S, q/hcb + S for your specials…but not some shit where you just press it and get a special without a motion. Also, such a button would be interesting to augment your block, like block and hold the S button to take no damage, like GGX-AC/, or tap while blocking to pushblock.


#10

Well MVC3 sort of has it set up where one button does a special move in a way since they don’t differentiate between punch or kick but it’s still different enough.

I had a feeling most people here wouldn’t approve of it which is fine but I don’t really see the issue, I mean marvel 2 has hypers with just a quater circle as apposed to two quater circles that say SSF4 has. Is that better? Or worse? I just find it weird that a Fireball isn’t ok if I get it by pressing forward but it’s fine if I add a down and a down torwards just before. I am pretty sure I can do both motions at basically the same speed.

Again I’m still not moaning or trying to make people sound snobbish, I asked a question and got fair answers.

Thanks to those who replied hopefully other people will reply further but I understand that it may not.


#11

Hard to predict what a fighting game would look like with 1 button special moves. I think you need to think outside the box to make it work and not think how it would work in the context of SF. Versus games simplified controls and combos in a way that wouldn’t work in SF games either (and many versus characters have normal moves that are projectiles/fireballs). I wouldn’t like 1 button special moves in SF but I’m sure it could work in a more unique fighting game. Although I don’t really understand how they are distinguishable from normal moves if they don’t have a command.


#12

basically what tataki said, changing the input of certain moves can change their usefulness significantly.

You could make a game with easy/one button specials, but you’d likely have to design the game with that in mind. Shoving instant 720s or chargeless specials into SSF4 really screws with balance.

AI Zangief in SSF4 ( supers/ultras you out of pokes ) and simple mode Tager in BBCS come to mind…


#13

I totally agree with both those points!

The points made after this are really just my thought’s rather than questions, so I’ll ge that out of the way first.

In a game that has been built from the ground up to incorporate one button special moves, how would a 360/720 command grab work? I keep stressing this but I can’t think of a way of making it not totally bullshit or thinking of an input that is simple enough so that even someone that didn’t play games could perform ‘First Time’.


Yes a lot of normals/command normals in MVC2/3 are very much like specials and so I kind of get my answer there in a way. It’s mostly things like fireballs or the such which is pretty much in my opinion the easy moves to fight in. In regards to how they differ to normals I guess in a game with one button specials they would build meter or cause chip etc etc like a special move but not actually have a traditional special move input.

And yes I also believe that adding one button moves into a game doesn’t make sense. I’ve seen a video where guile was given a fireball motion and even then that was totally out of control and so that’s not what I’m curious about since there are easy fixes to that problem.

I’m not trying to make it sound like I’m trying to make my own fighting game because I’m not but I often think about how when introducing a fighting game to new players the whole thing about teaching them a motion which is different for every character is just such a pain. Again I bring up Tekken which you can basically hit any button plus a direction and get a move, learning these moves and there applications is where the skill lies but doing it is really easy and it seems to me like such a better way to get people involved if I can just say “Press forward and this button for a fireball”.

Thanks very much again for the replies


#14

Actually, the PSX/Saturn KOF games DID have an option to assign special moves to a single button (shoulder buttons), at least from '95 to '97.


#15

A game with one button specials would either have characters with normals and very few specials, very few normals and more specials, or just way to many fucking buttons. Part of the benefit of using motions for things it drastically increases the potential move pool of the characters. That’s kind of the point besides the skill involved in doing it. You can’t have a million buttons on a controller or an arcade cab and expect it to be practical or that people will even use it.

Honestly I don’t see how teaching motions is a pain. There are 4 basic motions, 3 of which you can reverse for normal specials. And again only 3 of those get doubled for supers/ultras, and one is overwhelmingly more common, which happens to be the easiest one to do imo. That’s only 10 motions. This doesn’t count TK motions, but those are basically half circle motions that start on a different input.

CvS2 EO for GC has something similar to what you are talking about. They aren’t 1 button specials, but they are assigned to the C-stick in the form of a pie graph. Harder moves take up a smaller slice of the graph while easy moves take up larger etc, and you just have to hit the c-stick in the right spot.


#16

Well characters like Megaman, and Cyclops had a one button fireballs and they were fine.

However giving them more then 1 would be pretty stupid for the reasons Rising Church just mentioned. You’re taking away their normals.

Games are already much easier motion wise then they used to be. I don’t find the we need to simplify something we already ed simplified.


#17

I had always thought of it as having a button, like was mentioned before, as the special button and then you pressed a direction for the special.

So towards, down, back and maybe up would be a special move. You’d easily cover all of Sagats, Kens, Ryus etc moves like this.

If you needed more you could just have another button for an additional four or have down towards as a new special but I don’t really like that idea.


#18

I wouldn’t be up for one button specials/an EO mode for a FG.


#19

Not sure why people would be against it it’s not like the game would be worse. I mean if the functionality of the moves was the same (Like I’m not sure if you could do) I don’t know why it would make it worse.

Like I say I can press forward and a punch basically the same speed as a fireball motion. Harder motions don’t make things better and I really want my friends to play fighting games and they just won’t because teaching them the specials is too time consuming.

I don’t really want to get into this discussion however, to each his own.


#20

If you do directional input + special button to have specials (which is technically two buttons, since you pressing the microswitch in the joystick/making contact on the dpad :P), you have 1-9 specials, which isn’t bad, though 3 of them are more impractical due to jumping. Still not as many possibilities that motions have. But you also lose special move variety within the move itself. Sure you can use four directions to do all of Ryu’s normal specials, but you can no longer pick which version of the move, which is really annoying in the Cvs2 EO GCism mode. You could remedy this by adding an additional button press to determine the strength, such as jab+special gets you a jab shoryuken, but that would make it always two button presses for moves, and the buttons would almost never be next to each other. I’m not going to say that having one button specials like that will make the game awful, but I think any game that uses one button specials like that would be improved by using motions instead.