Oni's Okizeme Options Thread

oni

#1

ok, so you got the knockdown. list here oni’s okizeme options.

the only one i got so far is either mid or rh slash and crossup mk, so list some more guys.


#2

[LIST]
[]LK or MK ground stomp, it beats or crosses over most shoryukens on wake and almost every ultra as well. if you beat it you get an untechable knockdown, if you cross it over it’s a free back throw or combo for untechable knockdown (target combo > ground pound again)
[
]jumping MK, which you can go for a crossup with and then hit confirm jabs > target combo > ground pound again
[]back throw (for further mixing up off of untechable knockdown)
[
]ex ground stomp when they start trying to low block/crouch tech from the normal ground stomps and throws you’ve been hitting with (this is punishable though as it’s very laggy on block so don’t do it often)

[]forward throw if you want to zone, then fully charge a MP or HP fireball to force block on wake
[
]you can Slash but it’s not very good at all since Shoryuken beats it or they can just jab you
[/LIST]


#3

[LIST]
[/LIST]
And if they block it it’s a free punish for them, because both moves are at least -4 on block, probably more. This is a very bad option IMO. If you’re going to do wake-up ground stomp, I think it’s important to use the HK version as that’s safe on block.


#4

it is? how safe is it? (frames)


#5

I thought they were all technically unsafe. HK stomp certainly doesn’t look any safer to me, it looks just the same as the others but with a slower startup. That’s just eyeballing it though, I have no frame data.

Anyway, Oki isn’t always safe, I would call the stomps very minimal risk but yes they are still a risk. So is going for crossups though :\


#6

ya, oni has risk written all over his face, i wish i could say he makes up for it but not really… meh i love him neways.


#7

You can do

ambiguous slash mixup (use sparingly, not only are they unsafe, but your opponent can reversal you out of them once they see you are abusing it. Great to randomly catch people off guard, but I like them better in resets than okizeme)

crossup MK (really strong, not ambiguous but autocorrect reversals dont seem to work and it sets up frame traps like cr.LK, cr.LP, throw/b+MP. I like this option a lot against shotos to keep them honest about reversal DPs early on.)

n****eutral jump MP/empty jump (probably will end up as his best option in the long run. nj.MP hits everyone standing or crouching, is a safe jump when timed properly, and from there, you can OS to catch backdashes or reversals, you can fake the nj.MP and go for crossup airdash tatsu, go for an empty jump to low/throw/ground pound. He has a LOT of options off the neutral jump following a successful ground pound.)

All I can think of thats worthwhile off the top of my head


#8

lk and mk stomp do not cross up if you’re trying to go over SRK’s, especially the lk stomp. I’ve been (excessively)using and testing the palm stomp against all characters when i can and whenever i can. If lk and mk stomp does cross up, then it’s never happened to me.

But, rh.stomp does tend to cross up on most SRK’s and it’s what i use. One thing is for sure, i haven’t been able to beat ryu’s and ken’s wake-up SRK’s with lk.stomp. If it’s a timing issue then it’s better to cross them up and combo punish their SRK instead of trying to beat it.

The rest of ur post looks correct though, except i’d rather do the hp.e-fireball after a forward throw. Is there a reason why you use a charged fireball?


#9

Light and Medium stomp can cross over if the opponent does a wakeup move (shoryu, ultra, etc.). They cross over and then hit most shoryukens, and almost all of the time even if someone Ultras on wake you will land behind them and get a full punish.

I’ve won a lot of matches by baiting a shoryuken / ultra with lk/mk stomp and landing on the other side, wiffing, and punishing or just flat out hitting them and getting a UTK off of it.

Ken and Oni’s LP shoryukens go nearly straight up vertically though, so generally you get hit out of stomp so it’s not as good of an idea against them. Same case for Makoto. But Ryu, E Ryu, Akuma, Sagat (depending on which TU he uses), Guile, Balrog, etc. all generally lose to a lk/mk stomp on wake when timed correctly. Worst case scenario is usually trade. Against the twins you will beat, lose, or trade based on spacing and which move each of you uses. Most of the time you either win and get UTK or wiff, both being a good situation for you.

Almost every Ultra on wake causes you to land behind them and then get a full punish as well.

I use charged fireball because it seems to come out at closer to the exact speed needed after a f-throw. Electric fireball seems slower and easier for them to avoid. Again I have no frame data to support this though, it’s just “eyeballing it” and experience so far.


#10

crap ur right. i don’t know why i thought i was using the rh.stomp to cross them up.

i was playing just a few minutes ago and i noticed that i too have been using the lk.stomp against wakeup-SRK.

And yeah, it doesn’t work on ken lp.srk and makoto. Word seems to get around quick cuz the few makoto’s i fought were already looking for the stomp and were waking up with that up-punch move whenever i got close.

I’ve mained akuma for a while so i’m used to using red fireball from long range, which i why i tend to use Oni’s e-fireball after forward throws.


#11

Since many of my observations have also been done by other people here I thankfully have to type a lot less. One thing I have noticed is that if you can hit your opponent with Oni’s sweep it is a good setup for a ambiguous airdash, just take a step forward or back, netural jump and air dash, worked fairly regularly for me but I need to experiment more to see if it’s really guaranteed so do not take this as law.

Also, are we certain about the chop? If it really is a -4 doesn’t that mean we just have to space it right as most move that are quick enough to punish have short range, though there are obvious exceptions that will make it more match up specific if it is true.


#12

None of the slashes or stomps are “technically” safe, it seems. However I think they can all be made relatively safe via spacing and surprise factor.

The stomps in particular are relatively safe if you hit them at max block range. Many times someone will try to punish me but their jab whiffs, then my jab hits them because their hurtbox is extended.

The slashes however people can literally just spam crouch jab during your block strings and the second that you slash a jab comes out and stops you, it will even “auto correct” their jab and hit you on the other side if you cross through. So, you need to earn it against good players by giving them a reason to block instead of mash jab. You can do this by going for more grabs or intentionally dropping your own jabs and looking for counter hit crouch medium or back+medium punches.


#13

I’m not sure if this has been said anywhere yet. But after a foward throw do a mk slash as soon as u can to close the distance then forward jump and this will cross up with mk nicely right on wake up.


#14

thats why you gotta use lk slash more and then catch them off guard with a hk, or double trick them with mk(since it takes longer than lk but wont cross up)… ex slash might work now, but once the scrubs start to realize how easy they can block/counter the move on reaction, you either only gonna use it to punish fbs etc or mix it up after a move with good blockstun(b.mp etc) and cancel into ex stomp, so when they see you flash yellow, they are going to think twice to try and counter or not since counter hit ex stomp hurts like a mother. of course, some characters might be able to deal with it better.


#15

And again my favorite against most charge players that like to wakeup with a horizontal charge move (usually an ex move, drill, scissorkick, headrush, etc…)

after a knockdown that Oni is immediately ready to move, (srk, back throw, tatsu that hits late and lands right after)
hk slash immediately to whiff by before they can even begin wakeup

this ruins their l/r directional charge (time between direction change and wakeup is too long for auto turn)
thus limiting wakeup options for them
down charge not affect, thus watch for stomps and smashes still, but least you know that all they have


#16

doesnt work on blanka, he wakes up way too fast.


#17

[media=youtube]IQYBksVWtoU[/media]

Just uploaded this, try to mess around with this guys.


#18

Awesome! Gonna play around with that later tonight :smiley: Thanks!


#19

Didn’t get any attention in General Discussion, so I thought I would put it in its proper place.

Standing neutral or back HP is an amazing trap/meaty on wake up. Very similar to Balrog(Boxer)'s but you can follow up with a special move. So far it punishes all back dashes, grabs, and jumps on wake up.(Even beats out some reversals)

I normally follow up with LK Slash which adds BnB/FADC combos on hit. On block you can either hit confirm into another combo, start a block string, grab, neutral jump shenanigans, etc. Since I was a Boxer main in SSF4 I just happened to stumble upon it and its been working wonders.


#20

actually, blanka wakes up later than most character *only by 1-2 frames though