I’m a n00b and have a quick question. I remember after playing CvS2 on live for awhile and found out something I was doing seemed to be improper. I would hit somebody high in a jump-in and as I land immediately throw cr. kicks - sometimes sweeps. As I understood it this is called a “lag sweep” - seriously I’m a noob. Now this, very often is how I play in person and definitely not just online. I was basically wondering if this is improper or cheap for SFA3 on MAME. If it helps my ping is usually around 20 and so are my opponents’. I gotta try to play differently if that’s the case, but I usually use this tactic to crowd a player in real life and I don’t even consider how it might be cheap online.
People who complain about that kind of stuff are whiners.
You play online, you assume the risks of lag and input delay.
Nobody’s forcing you to play online, if you can’t deal with it, tough.
Trying to change your tactics so you don’t abuse the lag a little just fucks you over when you go to play offline again.
They’re the same as people who go “CHEAP” in arcades in real life, just ignore them.
If I can do friggin’ tick 720’s with zangief online on keyboard, they can learn to block a stupid jump in to sweep with delay.
heh thanks man… btw keyboard tick 720’s is impressive man. I’ve beaten a friend of mine once with a-ryu with a keyboard but i couldn’t dream of doing 720’s with a keyboard. Do you use arrow keys or is there another config u prefer?
^^Well put, Kyokuji.
jump-in attacks->whatever are by no means lag abuse. That is normal game play. The most problematic “lag abuse”, imho, is cross-ups. They are near impossible to block, but as kyokuji said, those are the drawbacks of online play. For me personally, there’s no old school sf games within driving distance, and maybe one or 2 (alleged) SFA3 cabinets…but hey, it’s just easier to play online, and while I may get pissed/frustrated/whatever at what I perceive to be lag-caused reasons for my inability to best somebody, hey that’s the trade-off for getting some actual live competition.
aside from autofire there’s only one thing i can’t put up with online. multiple gief splash spam, shit is soooooo annoying. and with 90ms+ there isn’t anything you can do about it.
Doing it offline probably would not work, but it wouldn’t put you in danger really. However, if you are playing kof, and continue to roll around people,l then it is a SERIOUS lag tactic, because if you were to roll into someone offline, you will immediately get comboed or thrown. The same goes for people online who love to jump - it is unreasonable to stop that online due to input delay. That same tactic would get beat offline.
Edit: Noaffinity, jumpins are lag tactics. What makes these players think that they are safe, when they blatantlyl jump into me when I’m just standing there? That shit would immediately get countered if there wasn’t any input delay.
Doing tick 720’s has nothing to do with delay. The timing to do that is exactly the same, it’s just the initial hit (say, the jab you’r etrying to tick with) is going to come out later than usual. I don’t think you really understand the argument behind input delay, because tick 720’s has nothing at all to do with it. If anything, using ticks online is a lag tactic, because by the time you notice the jab, and try to jump out since you’re about to get hit, you’ll be thrown anyway since the input of the jump was delayed. The only difference here is that ticks are also a valid strategy offline, so doing it online just makes it EVEN better. The other strats I discussed such as rolling and such, are not valid offline.
Ok, maybe that was a bad example, but I just mean’t that a 720 on keyboard, is 10 separate inputs. Now, I have to start that on the exact frame that the poke ends, and if lag takes away even one of my inputs, the SPD doesn’t come out. Yes, the input delay is a different kind of lag, but if I can compensate for some lag for a friggin’ 10 input move, then they can try and switch from high to low block a little sooner. I’ve had Blanka players who will do like 4 jump-ins on me in a row, and I get hit by 1 or 2 because I can’t switch from the low block fast enough.
I could complain, but guess what? I decided to play online knowing that lag can mess me up like this.
So if I complain, I’m just being stupid. If lag tactics bother you, don’t play online, period. No one’s making you.
You can’t expect people to stop doing things just because they only work online. If they see that it’s working, then they’re going to keep doing it, and you can either choose to adapt, or just complain every single game you play.
If you can’t throw them out of it all the time, don’t try. Just turtle for a couple seconds, or if they try to roll and command throw, just jump up.
It’s not the same as offline where you could just grab them at the end to make them look stupid, but it gets the job done all the same.
It’s the same as some of the people I’ve played in ST who’re playing online for the first time and immediately start screaming that I’m abusing the lag even though I’m just playing the characters like you would offline. They expect me to do things like not use jump-ins and all this other crap because they blame the input delay for not letting them do wake-ups properly.
I don’t care if it’s the lag or not. If I don’t see you doing wake-ups, I’m going to keep jumping in on you. Now you have 2 choices, you can stubbornly keep trying to do your wake-up and keep getting hit, or you can block and wait it out. People get mad that stuff that should work doesn’t, and I don’t blame them, but in that case, you should just stop playing online. It doesn’t make you look very good when you start screaming at every person you play. Especially when nobody’s forcing you to. This is part of the reason why most tourney-players disregard kaillera completely, and I respect that.
Besides, I really don’t know if I’d want Justin Wong screaming at me that he can’t get his wake-up super out.
Someone on this forum said it best. Playing a game online is not the same as playing it offline. Even the tiers are different.
Stuff like 'Gief splash spam tends to work more on people who don’t play online a lot. I’ve been playing ST online for so long that I know now to switch to high block the second I get nailed by a low hit. There are guys like DGV who won’t even fall for that once. It’s just a matter of getting used to the delay. You really have to play differently online than you do offline, and not everyone likes to do that because it fucks up their offline game. Jump-ins are king in ST online. You think 'gief is bad? Try fighting Blanka or Vega players who just jump in repeatedly like idiots the whole round.
And I use the UJHK keys for movement instead of the arrow keys, and I use the numpad for my buttons. Feels less cramped and locks up the keyboard less since my buttons are further apart.
Goddamn it, where’s that asshole ax0r? He needs to read some of this shit.
First of all I honestly don’t give a fuck what kyokuji, Emil or NoAffinity are saying because honestly they have no experience in most games in a tournament sense… Hell, even Arturo Sanchez ranked on Kyokuji for a retarded post he made a couple weeks ago.
And Emil, he’s just a fucking fag that lies about how long he’s been playing games… YUP! I SAID IT FIRST!
Its not JUMP INS that bother me, You can jump all day and I will uppercut you deep as fuck until you become afraid to jump, or activate and take 70% off, YOU CHOOSE
What gets to me are people who do overheads (f.mp) and cr.rh on your wakeup… I KNOW these are coming, I see the animation frames from the normals come out on my wakeup and I try to time a DP to knock you down but hey guess what, I get swept again even though I know my timing was on point…
I am not going to alter my game and block some shit I can win from… Block a sweep? Why not DP and play an actual good wakeup game? Whiff dive, wake for anything to come out… Activate and get you in the BAS for EZ Win, and if you decide to BLOCK thats fine too, it takes 2 strings to crush your guard.
THATS A REAL WAKEUP GAME. Fuck that cr.rh shit those are LAG TACTICS
Ask any real player, Nibor, Big 5, Ryu1999, Slide etc…
Why do you think we (Ryu1999, Slide, Lucky, and myself) played on a less laggier version of mame? Think about it.
And deus, you suck regardless. Don’t ever call me out on a fucking thread again, peace
EDIT: Also, Complaining about Gief splash and 360\720 ticks is scrub. Anybody play aures? He will play with a straight mind until you are zoning him and about to rape him, then he will begin to splash you ALL day and if he ends up connecting he will def hurt you with his near perfect auto fire execution
He still loses
Edit #2: Also, No hard feelings to Kyokuji or NoAffinity, I don’t want to make enemys but I don’t want to be called out in such a fucking pointless thread, thanks.
This coming from the guy who kept jumping in ALL the time on orangmegaslide, and all he had to do was far D…and you didn’t learn.
And you’d know this how?
Try that in kof, online…it’s not the same. SFA3 has no low jumps, the jump system is mediocre in that game.
You also do dps even if I sit there blocking. You hardly react.
Slide doesn’t dp unless he sees something blatant (like a jump early in progress). He’s not going to risk dping a sweep.
No, if lag tactics bother me, I call that player out on it, and then never play them again.
i play sodom, tick throws are an essential part of the game. i don’t have a problem with that. The problem i have with splash spam is when i use characters like V-ryu or whoever, i can’t DP it (on wakeup). the same problem u have with overheads I have with that. it annoys me cos it’s too easy to deal with offline, online it kills.
real talk, not scrub talk.
I don’t even play kaillera anymore tried to yesterday same shit was going on from before i stopped. I’d rather pay $5 on BART to Berkeley or $3 Toll on the Bay Bridge to SF than deal with the BS.
can’t beat offline competition.
ax0r and Emil, stop name dropping.
not to say that you both are right or wrong in what youre saying, but you two both are also assuming things and that type stuff drags other people into it that dont want to be.
What the hell does tourney play have to do with this? I’m just saying that if you’re playing online, don’t complain.
It’s like going to an arcade and bitching every game that you play that you’re only losing because you can’t use a joystick, and then making no effort whatsoever to try and get used to one.
Online play doesn’t mean shit, because lag makes some tactics that should work null, and others that shouldn’t work become killer, but it’s still fun.
I can respect people like Rock who just decide that online play isn’t for them, but if you think it’s lame because it allows scrub tactics to win, but you still keep playing and keep complaining every single day for some reason, then I start to get annoyed.
I don’t need a lecture everytime I play. People bitch at me for zoning with Dhalsim because they say it’s hard to get around it because of the lag. Well, what the hell do you want me to do with him? Spam LP?
If I tick throw, it’s lag abuse. If I zone, it’s lag abuse. If I mass yoga flame in the corner like you’re supposed to, it’s lag abuse. The worst is when I use noogie > slide > noogie > low RH drill > noogie. Some people just leave outright or call me an autofire abuser. I’ve even had seemingly good players tell me this. You’d think they would’ve seen Cole or Gian at least once in their lives.
Why’re you bringing other people into this anyway? Lol.
I always try to clear things up whenever I say something stupid. Half the time, it’s because I worded something wrong and then it gets misinterpreted.
Besides, I play Ryu1999 and Lucky all the time, and they never bitch at me.
What does my skill have to do with this? How does that invalidate my opinion? I know I’m not the best, but I’m not the worst either. What’s important is that I play and try to improve. I’m guessing you’ve prob. been playing fighting games seriously for much longer than just one year.
You’re just some elite punk; get a life. Quit acting as if you’re the shit just because you’re better than some people at a fighting game. If you don’t want people calling you out on the forums, and ‘making enemies,’ then don’t do the same, esp. complaining about the way they play. That’s called being a ‘scrub’.:rolleyes: Peace
And in regards to this whole dilemma, I agree with Kyokuji. As INCREDIBLY annoying as some things are, you choose to play this game online. Meaning, don’t complain about how people play. It’s not the same game online. Either change your tactics, or don’t complain. Nobody’s forcing you to play it online. It doesn’t hurt that it’s free.
who cares about gaming etiquette. as long as you’re not the biggest fucking loser in the world or really really suck, people could care less
Yes, the free part always makes it better, lol.
Emil, why the fuck are you bringing up KOF when I don’t even play that shit? And ride on Slide’s dick a little harder while you can
And I name dropped because after reading your first sentence I decided that this thread was not even worth my time… When DeusNFL called me out with the “Goddamn it, where’s that asshole ax0r? He needs to read some of this shit.” I put out every name of every random person that posted here with a reason to defend lag tactics, sorry if I put your panties in a bunch kids its not like I give a fuck how you feel anyways
I quit online play 3 months ago, Ask anybody. I don’t ever play anymore after my pad broke because I have hella competition offline to play online. Its not worth my $14.99 to buy a new saitek for the same old shit
and BTW emil, this is the last thing im going to say reffering to you… you can post anything you want after this about me but its not worth my reputation to stoop down to your level
Quit telling people you’ve been playing 2k2 for a year, I started playing ST a year and a half ago on Kaillera and guess what you played kof2k2!
But hey, whatever makes you look better infront of the awesome kaillera crew
Well, the last time I did say that, was a bit less than half a year ago…I’ve been playing for almos ta year and a half, although that is still irrelevant to this discussion…
Anyway yeah, as I said…no point in complaining your dps don’t come out when people attack you, because you dp even if they don’t attack you…the typical “random ass” player.
Well, it depends. It’s good to whiff moves sometimes to give the illusion that you’re still on the offensive, and just to say "stay back’. Also, low DPs can be good for building meter.