Online vs Tourney Style i.e royal phlush vs JWong


#1

Whislt watching Snake eyes take evo and watching RoyalPhlush beast JWong or bluetallcans chow down on Daigo, i felt like i was witnessing something very familiar, the online rushdown style.

One thing which tourney OG players seem to not expect to have to react to, is bravery. Blatantly walking up for a 2nd throw after just letting go of your first throw, or just walking up to an opponent. These tactics are jaw dropping in a tourney, but online they are commonplace, i guess its because its easy to be brave when your sitting in your pants screaming at the screen.

Ive only been to one tourney and i was 15 or so at the time (35 now), can anyone comment on the difficulties of being brave with a crowd judging your every move, or even execution difficulty.

My old friend ( a seasoned tourney play who has beasted daigo and jwong) came to my place to try out hdr online, he watched me play for a bit and i became very tense with him judging my play, my style totally changed (so respect to royal phlush for the manner in which he approached JWong). I then realised that the quirky things i do with my chun which allow me to eek out a win, involve mad bravery. The thing is, i wasnt feeling very brave at all.

Whilst writing this i have come to the conclusion that brave rushdown, is the highest level of yomi, because it is the yomi level most similiar to beginner style…wodyafink?


#2

People definitely tend to play more conservatively in a tournament, especially in the early stages of a round. Doing some crazy ‘brave’ stuff can certainly help you eek out wins. It has definitely helped me in the past. I also find, since there’s no lag, the game slows down offline for me, which is incredibly helpful for me as I don’t have great reactions. This usually means I can actually react to walk-ups, counter-throw etc that little bit better than I could online, so sometimes, you jab someone out of a walk-up once, counter their tic-throw attempt once - something that they are not used to seeing online - and it makes it feel really different to them.

Personally I really enjoy the pressure and the tournament atmosphere. You should definitely give it a try :slight_smile: (I need to chat to you on XBL about some stuff upcoming for next year). Even playing in my online tournaments will give you a small taster, but it’s really not the same as having a crowd watching, nothing beats that IMO. So I’m not perhaps the best person to judge this. Generally I play better (at least relative to my normal ability, & relative to how it affects others) the more the stakes are raised. Its so much of a factor for me that if I want to play my best online I have to take my headset off and try and “pysche” myself into believing this is a real tournament final and there’s tons watching and I must play my best to not lose! Sometimes I can actually kinda fool myself and play better hehehe. I’m sure the effect would wear off though if I tried this too much, heh.

What IS impossible for me is running a tournament and playing anywhere close to my normal ability, especially at the start when everything is always hectic and chaotic for an organiser. It’s just so utterly distracting and takes all of my focus away that I’d normally be using on the game.

I don’t quite get what you mean by “highest level of yomi” though. Yomi isn’t a style as such.


#3

I don’t quite get what you mean by “highest level of yomi” though. Yomi isn’t a style as such.
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Experience educates us and restricts us.

My mindgames dictate my style. (not sure if iam right about this)

I played a girl the other day who couldnt dragon punch or block too well (truly new to SF) but she did the most amazing dance around the screen and kept me totally off balance, e.g walking up to me after a knock down and then jumping right over me to go for a trip from the other side and other stuff i cant even understand or remember but she did no obvious expected normal things for 2 rounds.

i had to message her to tell her that i really enjoyed the match, she said i was being stupid because she had lost. Her mindgames unfettered by experience.


#4

‘Yomi’ is being able to seemingly read the mind of an opponent.

I don’t see how it makes any sense that being so new to something competitive that you are completely unable to read an opponent is somehow a “higher level of yomi”.

I think what you are saying is that a complete LACK of yomi may appear to be as effective as a really high level of yomi at times. However experience in almost any fighting game shows us that is not the case for fighting games. Truly random players just do not prevail. Even in your example - she still lost.

(Also, WTF !? Girls playing SF2!? In all my years this is the ONE game I’ve never =ever= seen girls play to any real degree, not even in Japan)


#5

I think your observation is discounting the 2 major factors of personal playstyles (some players known for turtling) and character matchup goals (Ryu keeping out Blanka). Just watch arcade legend Komoda Blanka to see that many player/matchup combinations are conducive towards rushdown but many others are better served not playing that way.

As for beginners, with a very cursory look, their style out in the open field may resemble high level play to some degree. But once you notice that the optimum counters aren’t being used, that damage isn’t maximized during punishment situations, and that any special tricks available haven’t been exploited, then the difference is clear. New players may be able to win a round off an experienced opponent just by using completely unexpected attacks but they won’t have any consistency and will get hammered the rest of the time.

The only advantage new players have is that their tabula rasa fuels unexpectedness (whereas for a good player, that unexpectedness comes from calculated decisions). So with that said, I agree that it’s good for middling players to learn how to strip themselves of their tendencies. One of the first things a good player will do is gauge your familiarity with the game, adjust accordingly, and pick apart your patterns. If you offer a minimally predictable pattern, then you may stand a better chance.


#6

The thing that affect online / offline play is lag (and also in most US tourney you can see your opponent’s hand offline).

So a lot of lag tactics (bravery) are being used online

lots of dash lower punch

abusive (sometime unsafe) of tick throws

walk up unsafe jab dp (punishable offline - jwong can’t punish royalphlush’s jab dp too consisently, i was wondering if it has anything to do with ps3)

etc

If you watch some tourney matches, you can see people like aniken or noguchi fei playing that “bravery” style you mentioned. It has to do with the character + personal play style.

Also, casual / tournament matches make a difference too (and it happens 99% of online play are casuals).

Mattsun’s casual plays are way more loose than his tourney play.

In japanese single elimination pokemon style 3v3, you only have a single game to play vs an opponent. You just can’t play that loose (i.e. “bravery”, or “read” or “yomi” or “guess”).


#7

Thank you for your insightful posts ganelon and remy, you really made me think.