"Only those who depend on their senses can be fooled by illusions!" - Dhalsim Match-Up Thread!

dhalsim

#1

So, I really really wanted to contribute to these forums somehow, but I live in the middle of no where England and my competition is essentially D-ranks on PSN, so I was never going to become a great Sim innovator or discoverer of awesome tech. I mostly just sponge off these forums and dream about giving back.

But now, I’ll give back! I’m not a steller Sim and I didn’t even play him in 4, but I’ll try to add what I know (guessed?) and keep this thing up to date. Any information would be super appreciated! Always test for yourself the information in this thread and if you’d like to challenge any information, please leave a few lines explaining why what I’ve written is wrong, don’t just go “this info sucks” without telling me why.

Information will probably come in little bits, I’ve read the Sim Thread and I’ve compiled some help I got in the Heihachi forum. I’ll add what I know but I ain’t perfect nor good, so don’t take my word for law until a good Sim player says it. :stuck_out_tongue: However, I’ll try and keep everything correct. I’m also going through all the other character forums and grabbing any anti-sim strats they have, know thy enemy style!

I’ll try and hit the lab really hard and see what I can punish and all that with each character. Some of the things in this thread will be my own labtime experience and of course, this can be wrong. I don’t want to give out misinformation, so if something is glaringly wrong, please point it out and I’ll make sure to test and change it.

Help with Julia, Heihaci and Ogre would be appreciated as they’re personal demons of mine.

Abel

[details=Spoiler][spoiler=“Wheel Kick”]Wheel kick:
This most is super super super spacing dependant. If Abel does it too close you can punish with st.lk and if he does it too far away you can beat it out with st.mk or cr.mp. You can reaction super/team super every version, though it’s harder with the faster ones than the slower ones obviously.

Personally, my plan against this move would to block it and throw out a st.lk st.mk chain, or if I’m confident he’s far away enough, try and hit him out of it with st.mk.

LK: Up close it’s st.lk punishable, however it more than often winds up being spaced safely.
At about lk.slide range, st.mk is your best answer further back than that it shouldn’t really hit. St.mp can work against it sometimes.

Mk: You seem to be able to connect st.lk chained into st.mk or just st.mk at some ranges, however at other ranges it’s safe.
St.mk seems to beat this out as well.

Hk: st.mk to punish.
At the correct range you can lk.slide to go under it, you’ll cross under able and will recover fare before him.

Ex: This one seems a lot harder to beat out with st.mk or cr.mp,
UP super close you can st.lk punish but otherwise this move is probably going to be safe.
You can reaction super/team super, but I personally found it much harder than the normal versions.
It seems if you use lk.slide you’ll lower your hitbox and not get hit by this, but you run the risk of hitting Abel as he lands and knocking him out of his recovery, then neutral right in Abels face, which is a much better place for Abel than you.[/details]

Shoulder tackle

[details=Spoiler]Shoulder tackle: Any attemps to hit him out of this with a neutral standing normal gets me counterhit and launched across the screen and on the whole it seems more safe than not, since Abel has to be super close for you to be able to punish this. I feel you could reasonable react to the slower versions with super/team super though. Though it seems we get to act first on block (I mashed st.lk against his cr.lp and cr.lp seemed to lose most of the time)

I would probably block this and backdash away, or try for st.lk xx kkk teleport, however this is a really bad strategy and I’m hopeful that someone will suggest something better. This move looks really really good for Abel, or I’m a terrible scrub. Though, with the large amount of hitstun it does it might be alpha counter bait.

Lp: St.lk punishable on block unless he hits with the very tip of his shoulder, then it’s safe.
Personally I feel it’s just a bit too fast to react to unless you’re really looking for it, but you can beat it with lk.slide

Mp: Abel had to be really really close for me to punish this one with st.lk, I’m going to assume it’s safe from anywhere outside of st.lk range.
However I feel this one gives you more reaction time, I feel a reaction super/ team super is a more feasible option, still, you’d probably have to have good reactions.
You can attempt lk.slide, but too close and you’re going to get hit and otherwise you’re just going to interupt his move and then you’re going to be neutral right in Abels face, which is a bad place.

Hp: Again, safe at far range, punishable upclose. You can react to this with team super and I’m sure people with better reactions can get normal super too. Lk.slide is an option at distance but it, like all your other normals, gets beat up close.

Ex: Even with Abel and Sim crouching knee to knee, this is safe. And you’d need to be super man to react to this. I set the dummy to playback doing this move over and over, I knew when it was coming and by the time I’d reacted I was already in blockstun. This version is pretty evil.[/details]

Tornado Throw

[details=Spoiler]Tornado Throw: If Abel whiffs this move within st.mk range, it’s a free punish. I’d suggest st.mk into tag or super. If an abel does this on your wake up you can backdash and get the st.mk punish. His extended hurtbox pushes him into your st.mk range, but as the move recovers he retracts so you need to react to it quickish out of the backdash. Normal versions get beat by super, but ex beats super. Team super beats ex but I do not advocate mashing team super in the middle of Abels strings (normal super maybe, however that’s a really really poor use of meter, despite being safe.)

It’s hard to say much? It’s a grab, don’t get grabbed. :P[/details]

Falling Sky

[details=Spoiler]Like TT, this is a free punish within st.mk range, though you need to be quicker. It seems like he can’t grab you out of backdash on wake up.

However, where this move shines is against IAT teleport, if Abel wants to be fancy (from low block) he can slide to downfowards, then to downback and then downforwards again and press M+H and he’ll either get c.hp or ex.fs, which will grab you out of whatever with its i-frames, however this does cost a meter. Why he would do this when he has a jab and a st.hp is beyond me though. :stuck_out_tongue:

He can also normal FS you out of jumping limbs, but that’s one hell of a read.

I think with this move, the risk/reward is ever so slightly in our favour. I’d label this Abels “showing off” move since it seems to get him hit more than it works, but damn it’s fancy when it works.[/details]

CoD

[details=Spoiler]Change of direction: This move is a mix up between high and low, however most abels will stay with high and go low on the last high, which is very reactable. You can super or team super inbtween the first and second hit. Each of the low follow ups are varying levels of punishable and as are the overhead versions too, well spaced the first hits caaan be safe, but it’s a very difficult thing to do. St.lk is your go to move for punishing this

Every first hit: With good timing and spacing you can st.lk punish any version, even ex, the Abel has to space this super well for it to be safe.

Second hit high: This carries you closer and is also st.lk punishable, however must be blocked high.
Third hit high: This is so punishable you can get raw st.hk into manual tag, essentially anything you want, even hk.slide. Must be blocked high.

Second hit low: With a bit of practice I was able to reliable punish this with st.lk into st.mk, I couldn’t get heavy kick but it is possible to follow up with super or manual tag. This version doesn’t combo off of any of the first hits. Must be blocked low.
Third hit low: Super duper punishable, either go into cr.hp into super or team super, or st.hk into manual launch, the Abel has really messed up if he does this to you so make him pay. Must be blocked low.[/details]

Super

[details=Spoiler]Abels super is a grab that he can time the release of, however Dhalsim has a super easy way to get behind him. My tactic, from any range, is to hold up back and if the Abel appears to be waiting for you to land so he can grab you, either do forwards PPP teleport or backwards KKK teleport and you’ll either go behind him to hit him or pause your descent so the Abels timing will be off. In fact, if they charge to the full duration of the super, you can just back, land and KKK teleport to put yourself out of range. You can always up back out of this, to my knowledge. Up back, fowards PPP is, in my opinion, the safest option.
Super is where he crouches down, team super he puts his hands up in the air, learn the difference! It could be critical. [/details]

Team Super

[details=Spoiler]This one isn’t a grab, but you can still upback from any range as long as you’re not say, landing from a jump. My advice would be to just block it and full punish.
Super is where he crouches down, team super he puts his hands up in the air, learn the difference! It could be critical.[/details]

Random Abel Tactics

[details=Spoiler]f.mk > dash
If you time st.lk correctly you’ll generally beat out c.lp, however his st.hp will generally beat you out. St.lk will beat out normal torando throws but lose to ex.
After this I’d probably block once or twice to see what this specific Abel does after a step kick, then base your decisions on that. You’ve got backdash, supers, teleports, you can press buttons depending on what your Abel does.[/details]
[/details]

Akuma

[details=Spoiler][Spoiler=“Fireballs”]To be honest, this section will be nothing special, we all know the fireball game, but read on if you want.

You can f.hp under every iteration of Akumas normal fireball as well as his shakunetsu/red fireball, against the slower versions you may stand up into it on the way back up, but with good timing and spacing you can generally avoid this.
Other options include jumping over the fireball and using one of sims drills (j.d.lk/mk/hk) to bring you back to the ground, as well as that you can slide under them or nullify them with your own fireball. You can also yoga sniper from up close if you react to a fireball, and even though you’re going backwards you generally won’t land on even the slowest fireball. This is good if you’re up close as it punishes fireballs/locks him in block stun and gets you backwards out of pressure, I suggest doing this after a blocked fireball because while you’re technically at the advantage, most akumas will walk forward, jump, press a button, etc. which results in them getting tagged. And they’ll get hit if they do the smart thing and block low![Spoiler=“Normal fireball”]From max range you can’t punish c.mk xx fireball and unlike in SF4, it’s a true blockstring now so you can’t super in between either. However, you do get to reversal super punish from pretty much anywhere outside max range. I don’t know how many people really know that fireballs are unsafe on block in this game, but I’ve only seen my Vega player friend make use of it (with Vega’s stupidly broke normals ;)) From up close (I mean really up close, forehead to forehead) you can punish with st.lk, but this would probably only come up so rarely that I don’t think it’s worth mentioning.

Though, punishing a blocked fireball is much easier in the corner since it’s generally pushback that stops you from punishing. So, we can chain combo punish blocked pointblank fireballs in the corner, damn Sim is S tier. 8-)[/details]

Shakunetsu/ Red fireball

[details=Spoiler]All normal fireball things apply like st.fp, slide under, drill over, etc.
You don’t get reversal super even point blank.
These can be up to three hits so don’t try to challenge them in fireball wars. [/details]
[/details][/details]

Alisa

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Asuka”]Be careful of her counter, try to know when it ends. Some asukas will throw this out like Ryus will do full screen lp.dps, the only difference is, if you get hit by this counter you’ll be brought straight over to her and she’ll be in. Watch it whiff and punish it. [/details]

Balrog

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Blanka”][/details]

Bob

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Bryan”][/details]

Cammy

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Christie”][/details]


#2

Chun Li

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Cody”]You can punish medium and heavy hurricane (qcb.p) with st.mk into launch.[/details]

Cole

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Dhalsim”][/details]

Dudley

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Elena”][/details]

Guile

Spoiler

You are unable to challenge a sonic boom with f.hp once it becomes active, unlike a shoto fireball your limbs will not go under it and it won’t trade either. However, cr.f.mp and cr.f.hp will go under booms (will test this)

You generally need to turtle harder and wait for an opening.

If the guile is reacting and alpha countering your limbs (guile can alpha counter from db) you can bait this with cr.f.mp, which seems to avoid the alpha counter as it comes out.

Use mk.slide to gain ground against guile as it can combo into st.lk on hit.[/details]

Guy

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Heihachi”]You can ground super/team super through f.lp > mp/hp (his overhead/low string), light punch is a block string so it’s safe to do regardless. Alternatively you can teleport after the f.lp and get out that way.

F.lp > mp (his overhead) is -4 on block allowing Dhalsim to punish with a st.lk

Due to the active frames on his j.hk, f.mk and f.hk are more likely to lose out at range, however you can try to hit him with low (downforward) normals as he lands or preemptively j.f.mp. At the right ranges though, your st.mp will always win, while it is low damage and probably won’t dissuade your opponent, it can be frustrating for the Heihachi to be kept out. Cancel the mp into fireball or wait and then go low/high (yoga sniper) to mix up the Heihachi as they land.

More damaging anti air options are super, team super or alpha countering (f.hk+hp) and then tagging the jump in for a punish

Heihachi has one of the worst walk speeds in the game so you can be liberal with your limbs, but make sure you vary between low, standing and air (yoga sniper) normals so you don’t become predictable.

React to him reflecting fireballs and instant air teleport behind him for a full punish.

If the Heihachi is using his normal low (button will be added later), you can react to it with launcher (hk+hp) and punish with a tag in combo.

At the correct ranges, Heihachi can super punish yoga sniper (I’ll test on block or on hit when I can)

His counter can grab you from full screen, after which he gets to combo too, so watch out and try to bait ume-counters.[/details]

Hugo

[details=Spoiler]Try to stay 3/4 of the screen, just about where f.hp will hit on the tip.

Throw fireballs and then wait to see what hugo does, if he jumps do f.hk or nj.f.mp to hit him out of the air. If he lariets (qcf.k) through, do f.hp and punish him for it.

f.hk can be good as it will hit him standing due to his height and will also hit him if he jumps.

If the hugo likes to charge lariet at full screen, cross up teleport will put you behind him and you’ll be either able to hit him out of the back/foward dash or land and punish if he lets go.

Splash (j.d.hp) should get beat out by f.hk and f.mk at 3/4 screen, can be a real problem. Unless it is going to cross up, it should never beat out st.mp though.

Cross up IAT will go behind splash and won’t get hit (Will test)

Hwoarang

[details=Spoiler]Lesser Hwoarangs will try his divekick thing (he does a back flip then comes down atop you) however, it gives you ample time to react and nj.f.mp to hit it out of the air, stopping him in his tracks.

His command dash gets beat out by lows like Kazuya’s and is susceptible to st.lk, st.hp, and all of Sims crouching normals df and db.[/details]


#3

Ibuki

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Jack X”][/details]

Jin

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Julia”][/details]

Juri

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Kazuya”]As his wave dash (special step, f, d, df) is invincble to highs but not lows, it will go through yoga sniper but lose to f.hp, f.lk, and all variations of Sims crouching normals.

His lp, mp, mk, lk (two punches into low into mid kick) is super punishable on block at the 4th hit, don’t let him go unpunished. However, Kazuya can either go low for the 4th hit with sweep or chain into st.hp (Need to test if this is punishable when chained into, as there is a lot of pushback)

Slaughter hook (qcf.p) is also punishable on block by st.lk, which you can chain into a tag punish.
[/details]

Ken

[details=Spoiler]You want to stay at about 3/4 screen where you can on reaction do f.hp to go under fireballs as well as anti air jump ins.

You can anti-air air tatsu with st.mp now, as well as air teleporting behind it and sliding under it.

Some Kens will like to do guess/preemptive/ume shoryus at distances on the screen to hit your limbs, wait a split second when you really want to limb and out think them for the punish.[/details]

King

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Kuma”][/details]

[spoiler=“Kuro”][/details]


#4

Lars

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Law”]Don’t fireball from any distance, even if Law’s legend kick (will add notation) doesn’t connect, it’s a free get in he can do on reaction to fireball, however from the right range it is punishable.

Stay slippery, use lots of drills (j.d.lk/mk/hk), lots of teleports.

Stay solid in your anti air game

He’s full of frame traps, try not to punish unless you’re sure you can.[/details]

Lei Wulong

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Lili”][/details]

M. Bison

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Marduk”][/details]

Megaman

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Nina”][/details]

Ogre

Spoiler

His dive move (where he drops down off screen) isn’t safe on block, however some Ogres will do it a lot preemptively. The best action is sometimes inaction against an Ogre player so you can bait this dive and punish.

[spoiler=“Pac-man”][/details]


#5

Paul

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Poison”][/details]

Raven

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Rolento”][/details]

Rufus

[details=Spoiler]Knee (st.hk) is your go to antiair at midrange, however Rufus can change his trajectory in the air with his divekick, so anti-air-ing is more of a guessing game.

st.mp seems to be the best thing to do in pressure if you expect another divekick.

Due to the hitboxs on Rufus’ j.hp (the hitting area in front of Rufus, his hurtable area behind him) it generally beats out f.hp at range, allowing rufus to land and combo into st.mk and a full combo.

If the Rufus tries to tag out safely by using an ex.messiah, a well timed alpha counter can catch both Rufus and the incoming partner, tag to your own partner for a full punish.

The messiah follow ups can be blocked easily enough (block low and then high), however lk slide isn’t as good an option as it was in 4.
[/details]

Ryu

[details=Spoiler]You want to stay at about 3/4 screen where you can on reaction do f.hp to go under fireballs as well as anti air jump ins.

You can anti-air air tatsu with st.mp now, as well as air teleporting behind it and sliding under it.
Some Ryus will like to do guess/preemptive/ume shoryus at distances on the screen to hit your limbs, wait a split second when you really want to limb and out think them for the punish.

Every iteration of donkey kick (but EX, I think) is punishable for Sim, so don’t let him get away with the free pressure.

Ground tatsu can be hit by cr.mp which can then be cancelled into back teleport to gain space or fireballs to lock Ryu down once he resets. As well as that it can be hit by AA super, but this is probably a waste of meter when alpha counters are so good. It can also be hit by st.mk, st.mp, and even st.hp, but these are much harder to time and will wind up in you getting hit if you mistime them.[/details]

Sagat

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Sakura”][/details]

Steve

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Toro”][/details]


#6

Vega

[details=Spoiler]Vega’s will do a horizontal dive at about head height (charge db >f.hp), Dhalsim is able to slide under this with any slide and st.f.hp punish. You can also teleport behind him to avoid behing hit, however you can input slide quicker narrowing down the time you need to react to his wall dive.

Sim can also slide under Flying Barcelona Attack, however smarter Vega’s will adjust and aim for where you’re going to slide to and not where you are.

Vega’s long reaching and fast normals can even punish the st.mk in your “st.lk, st.mk” chain so chaining normals generally isn’t safe against him.[/details]

Xiaoyu

[details=Spoiler][/details]

[spoiler=“Yoshimitsu”][/details]

[spoiler=“Zangief”][/details]


#7

Reserved!


#8

Reserved!


#9

More, reserved? Do I need this many posts? Who knows!


#10

Cool that you are doing this!:slight_smile: I will help when I have the time!


#11

Thank you! :smiley: If you could provide match up strategies, that’d be super helpful, I don’t really have access to good players of any characters bar say, Vega and Rolento.

I’ve added Abel’s specials, what is and isn’t punishable and what I feel you should do against them, I need someone who knows what they’re talking about to correct me now. :stuck_out_tongue:


#12

I can also add that I’ve noticed from last time I played that st.Hk can beat tatsu now. I haven’t tested it with every shoto but from what I’ve noticed it works pretty well now.