Openers


#1

And a poll too, to get the most out of my SRK forum experience!

Seems like a lot of Marvel posting going on, which is good cause there’s still plenty of Marvel to be played. Sooo, I’ll go ahead and get some discussion going on openers, esp since I haven’t seen any threads on this. This is all based on what I know, so since I don’t know everything (!) and sometimes even wrong about some things (!!!), go ahead and correct me or add whatever you know.

Magneto c. short = fastest ground normal to start with. Beats fucking everything because Magneto is a fucking cock. Though it might lose to Iron Man st. rh, not really sure. It fucking better lose to it though.

Speaking of Iron Man st. rh, it should beat all jumping openers. Could be wrong about that.

I believe Strider st/cr. jab and Cable’s cr. jab are right under Magneto c. short. Cable should start with cr. jab straight to st. rh because c. jab will catch jumpers and the rh will juggle, whereas going for a c. strong or fwd will whiff.

Magneto jump short will catch a Sentinel dashing back I’m pretty sure. But since you can’t switch trick that one, it takes timing.

Sentinel st. short will beat Storm j. short clean I’m pretty sure. Juggle with st. strong into something painful. Not sure about other jumpers.

Also, Sentinel st. jab is best v other Sentinels from my experience. But wouldn’t that mean st. jab would be best v Storm too? Maybe it doesn’t juggle as well as st. short does (i.e. once they get hit by the jab they bounce on the ground), but I’m not really sure.

AFAIK Magneto j.short can be blocked by jumping straight up and blocking right away (and all jumping openers for that matter), no matter how fast they do it. However, everytime I’ve tried to jump straight up and block a Magneto st. rh, I get hit and eat a bunch of Magneto garbage.

^ going along with that, in case you didn’t know, jumping straight up is faster than jumping up back or up forward. You can get hit by a Magneto c. short if you jump back or forward, but not straight up. Same goes for meaty slide after shockwave and Cammy c. short OTG after KBA. Of course, that leads to other stuff like getting airthrown.

Magneto’s slide is prolly a good opener too, but I’m not sure how fast it is. Stupid mother bitch Magneto.

Not too sure about the speed of Storm openers, but I believe st. jab is the fastest she has. Maybe c. jab. Could be wrong though. Also, Storm st. jab into whatever chain should eventually eat up Sentinel st. short and super armor. At least from what I’ve seen… it could depend on assists as well.

Blackheart j. jab is prolly hella fast and I’m sure it beats a lot of stuff.

Switch trick tagging out should be good v jumpers (Magneto jump short fwd + Psylocke), but in my head I see the assist getting kicked instead of the point character. Or maybe they’ll both get kicked? It could depend on what assist, the timing of the assist, and the character. The risk/reward on that is prolly in the non-switcher’s favor, but only slightly depending on the characters since some characters like Magneto or Sentinel or Iron Man can really kill shit off a tag-in.

I think Cyclops df. rh is as fast as Strider’s or Cable’s fastest openers (they’ll trade) but still not as fast as Magneto c. short. Possibly same deal w/ Doom df. rh, if not slower. Both launchers should catch jumpers.

And that’s it for now!

Keep in mind this information assumes that you’re doing whatever you’re doing at optimal speed (switch trick or not). If your Magneto c. short is losing to Storm’s st. jab at the start of the match, your timing was prolly off.

Also notice that I use a lot of “pretty sure” or “should”. I’ve never sat down with another person and tested this stuff out… I imagine starting and restarting over and over is pretty tedious. In addition, jumping openers would require extensive testing since there’s a good chance you didn’t do your attack at optimal speed, so you’d need more testing just to be sure. So if you HAVE done this and are coming up with results that differ from the above, by all means post.

Clockw***0***rk


#2

Nice stuff there, Clock. I’ll add some stuff I’ve been subjected to/have seen over the past…

Jump straight up and blocking is not exactly 100% safe against some characters. Especially Magneto (yeah, he’s a fucking cock, huh?) who can just sj.lk GuardBreak into infinite into randomness into death. But that’s only if they predict your opener or they have superhuman reflexes.

Switch trick dash has been used with Sentinel mainly due to his super armor, but has it been used by other people like Magneto or Cable? I.E. Dash back with Magneto (hope their opener doesn’t catch you), react accordingly. They try something, that’s a free Snapback or combo right there. I think it doesn’t work if you start up close though since some characters without super armor could get caught. Except maybe Blackheart…


#3

devil x posting

edited for clean up.

strider d+short trades with cables d+short

however, his jab speed is a notch faster than cable

ok heres an insight to how the ground speed goes

-magneto d+short > all

-second tier speed strider , blackheart and cyc come in second on the ground speed department. strider with standing and crouching jabs. bh with crouching jab (him and strider trade). cyc df+rh trades with those pokes as well , which is obviously a better trade for him. that move is insanely fast :eek: (side note, wolverines jabs are also in this class, not that its important to many peeps)

-3rd comes cables , storms crouching jabs and ironmans d+short.

-4th doom, spiral, sent, blah rest of the slow mofos

ironman standing rh, avoids lows for a sec. its beat by stuff like strider standing jab. so its speed is not the same as cycs launcher. dooms launcher with rh sucks for speed too


#4

I was gonna mention that actually, cause sometimes I’ll do it with Storm for no good reason. I think it’s best with Sentinel rather than other characters because Sentinel is usually at a disadvantage in the beginning (getting pummeled with square jump crossups and crazy block strings and whatnot) - main point being, going for an attack opening isn’t as good as dashing back, whereas with other characters it’s the opposite because of their better options. So it’s not so much that dashing back = good setups (though the setups aren’t bad… you get to punish assists or start filling up the screen), but it’s the fact that you get Sentinel out of there to avoid all that ugliness that Magneto or Storm can do, ugliness that Sentinel has a hard time stopping (though Cable AA helps).

Clockw***0***rk


#5

im pretty sure jump upforward and jump straight up are the same speed, and its only jump upback thats slow cause of the block

me and shady argued about it before

IN FACT I THOUGHT I ARGUED WITH U ABOUT IT


#6

Button switch glitch Juggs and start with a s.FPxxxHead Crush is a great opener. It beats most moves using his super armor and has good speed. I haven’t tried against everyone, but I know it beats sent’s s.FK and Storms s.FK, but not Cable’s s.FK.:bluu:


#7

great post clockwork.

is switch tricking allowed in tournaments?

when i tried switch tricking dash against magneto, how come he gets first priority?


#8

What about Sent switch trick launcher? Would his armor let him get that out?


#9

no, i tried it before. jumping lk mk with storm beats it. not sure about other top tiers but i imagine it would lose to any other jumping attack also.


#10

Aight, figured there was a reason i’d never seen it used.


#11

storms c.lp, vs jumper then c.fp combo’s.

small stuff:)


#12

What is the timing to get the optimal speed ClockWork mentioned?

i want to get better opening since i mash the buttons:sweat:

i’ll really appreciate the help:D

Cyke Noob


#13

hey, maybe clock or kaising can help me out with this one. every time i see a magneto go up against kaisings strider and they attempt a low attack striders cr.lp beats it out every time. i cant remember if striders using quick start but i pretty sure most of the time he isnt so which ones faster? with or without quickstart.
thanks.


#14

If magneto is supposed to be faster than Strider, openers probably have this “Rock, Paper, Scissors” system. Because I’ve been through plenty of situations where I’ve beaten Magneto off the start. Although i have lost in those situations too.


#15

Switch glitch is allowed in tournaments.

BH j.jab is very good, but it seems to lose to Sent j.jab, which really does suck. However, if you predict a j.jab, you can stand block and then try to get him. Takes prediction, though, and that’s bleh.

BH doesn’t have good openers except jump jab, crouch short (not THAT good), and crouch block and call drones. :rolleyes:

Storm c.fierce is good against jumpy Magnus/Sent.


#16

maybe i’m a dumbass, but i don’t know what switch glitch/trick is. anybody willing to help? thanks.


#17

#18

Would an opening snapback be good vs switch backdash for sentinel
and hope to catch him as he backdashes with the snapback? Thats what I have been meaning to try, but I don’t play MvC2 much now.


#19

correct me if I’m wrong because I heard this somewhere, but when you get to the ready screen and you’re moving on your position and likely to be breathing down each other’s throats…can you hold a button and thats the first command and it comes immediatly?


#20

Something that works for me once in a while when i am starting Doom on point is to push forward at the begining of the match like i am going to try to out mash them and then wave dash backwards one time wave forward once but shorter which almost always places me with in cr. short range then st. forward into arial rave super. It actually works suprisingly well against most quicker characters even if they know i am going to do it, but i have gotten slaughtered by good Cables. I have actually rarely been caught off gaurd even by glitchers when i intitially wave dash backwards, the hardest part for me is to have an even quicker wave dash forward which is absolutely neccessary against tri- jumpers. Im not really sure how I end up beating glitchers since I guess registering the backwards motion for the first wave dash should slow things down but that only seems to happen once in a while.