Parries: Make or break 3s?


#1

For a long time I defended parries but they really are stupid. Red parries are fine, but normal parries are a really lame crutch. They require slim to no skill and allow too much opportunity to punish.

Almost all blue parries are random (i.e. a guess) and can totally turn a match around. Who would want to lose a match to a random button press?

Parries ruin what could be an amazing game. Allowing any scrub with some luck to compete with high level players.

I think if maybe air parries were taken out, or maybe you could air block with considerable recovery time, that would be a bit better. Or maybe make it like JDing in CvS2, where (as far as i know), you cant JD and strait up punish anything they throw at you, just some moves. Shit, there are a billion things that could be better than normal blue parries.

I suppouse when you see your first parry, you say “WOW, COOL!”, but after a while it gets really lame. You work so hard to get a dominant positon on the screen, then someone takes a major guess to press DOWN or something stupid, and you get supered strait into the corner.

YEAH APOC FOR PRESIDENT.

I think perhaps this game would be much more solid if it didnt have parrying. Or perhaps parrying is what seperates it from other SF’s and that is why it is as popular as it is? Would people not play it as much if there were no parries? Or do you think there would be a larger following if parries were taken out, giving it a much more classic sf feel?


#2

Sure, 3s does have random parries into super, but every SF game has really stupid shit (roll super and RCs in CvS2, tick throws in ST, VC and infinites in A3…). Hell, in my opinion, JDs and air blocking are stupid because they’re so safe. It all depends on what kind of BS you personally have the most tolerance for.

Not all blue parries are random, just like not all guesses are random -there are educated guesses. Saying almost all blue parries are random is like saying almost all wake-ups are random, it’s not entirely true. The better you get, the less random parries are. Also note that DC 3s is more random than arcade 3s, which is the main reason why it sucks so much for serious matches, so if you’re stuck with it you’re unlucky. Also, I think I read that you play Makoto, and she’s is easily the most random character in the game. Don’t play her if you don’t enjoy guessing.

To me, parries are only annoying when playing scrubs that don’t care about the risk/reward ratio. And even then, you should get caught by it often at all if you pay attention to patterns. The best players are the ones who win consistently, and no one who parries into super regularly does that -they always end up losing really bad sooner or later. I don’t think players who regularly random parry into super are good at all. The Japanese very rarely lose to random parries into super because their offense is better and they know how to get around them. You don’t get better by random parrying. That’s the reason why I usually try to parry as little as possible, unless I have to and the risk/reward ratio is really good, or if someone is being really predictable.

But I’m not going to lie, random parries ARE frustrating sometimes when playing scrubs. When I get parried into super, I try to blame myself and not the game, because it’s an incentive to get better. I’m definitely doing something wrong if my opponent is able to predict exactly when and how I’m going to attack. Very often, people complain about parries being random and too good without realizing that they are actually being very predictable (like, attacking on every wake up when the opponent has meter). But instead of re-evaluating their offense they’d rather blame the game for their weaknesses, it’s easier and less painful for their ego.

I don’t think 3s would work very well without parries. It would be more fun in some ways, but some of the characters really need it as a tool to get around certain tactics, because the game was built around parries. I think a good way to make the game better would be to drastically reduce the length of the “pre-empt” parry window… It’s shorter than for clean parries, but it’s still too long imo. I’ll admit pre-empt parries are stupid in 3s.

And yes, randomness is what makes the game more fun in a way. I don’t think more people would play it if parries weren’t in, quite the opposite actually. Because of parries, anything can happen. That’s both good and bad, I guess.


#3

I see your point on a lot of things.

I guess what gets to me is when the game can deteriorate with certian people when they jump in empty but are EXTREMLEY good at parrying… so you get down to empty jump in -> tech throw game. or if you throw something out, they parry it and hit you.

I really enjoy parries when they are used sparingly, to essently counter attack for somone being predictible or move right in your face (UOH etc…).

but when you have someone at an intermediate level who relies so much on parries, trying to bait you to parry, what do you do?

I guess just by personal prefrence I dont like that game, so I am wondering, what kind of tactics have you developed to mess with people who are so “parry-happy” it turns into a tech-throw fest? or it gets to the point where you cant really throw anything out becuase they will parry it?

Or have none of you ever encoutnered this? I just know some people personally who play like this, and its just so retarded sometimes I dont even feel like playin 3s anymore.

Like I said, you work so hard on your footies, pressuring and what not, someone of less skill can just tottaly kill you if they see something coming…

so, like you said, maybe i should be blaming myself. and I guess thats what it comes down to…

why arnet i murdering someone who relies so heavily on parrying?

what aspect of the game am I missing here?

what is…

THE ANTI-PARRY?


#4

Well it doesn’t seem to be a problem for the top Japanese players. Maybe if you were more skilled, you wouldn’t be whining about people who parry. :cool:

It seems to me that 3s has had the most lasting popularity and continues to be popular many many years after its release. That’s a good sign Capcom got it right.

I mean, mix ups are random. Wake ups are random. The whole game is just rock paper scissors anyway. People make educated guesses - what is my opponent going to do?

Now people who parry and don’t follow through with anything, that’s annoying…


#5

That would be block. In all lowercase letters.


#6

empty jump … upper!


#7

if you are the one getting your attacks parried, the anti parry would be to throw. or do nothing and punish the whiffed parry ie you see them duck down and up (an attempted low parry) and then low forward super them ^ ^


#8

This discussion shouldnt even be taking place

If u are gettin parried a lot, and seems like they are just random parries, its obvious that 1, ur way too predictable, 2, u gotta start mixing up ur attacks not just hi/low wise, but timing wise…better yet, dont even try throwing out random moves when its really not needed.

Parries are too much of a risk anyways, u can get thrown , u can parry a move that cancellable into something else and unless ur psychic, there is a chance of u eating a super if u try to parry too much.

There are way too many things in 3s thats more powerful than parrying, parrying is just one of the many options u can chose in 3s, whether u think its the best option or not is entirely up to u…

Sure I see ppl gettin a few lucky parry, eat a huge combo, and die, but it doesnt happen all the time like its magic, 1 round here and there or a few games here and there doesnt mean anything, the better player will always come out on top.


#9

that sums it all up. if you’re honestly losing to a scrub, then you need to stop underestimating him. if you’re losing to a good player, learn to stop making the same patterns. do you ever low attack sean after he hits you with strong -> roundhouse?

3S is balanced because it enforces a balanced, mixed strategy. you can’t rely on one thing and hope it will work. this concentration and attention to the game is what determines the better player.


#10

I guess I’ll jump in because I wrote half of the first post.

We’re quite aware that getting parried can be a sign of predictability. And that a random parrier, overall, loses more than he wins. But it is frustrating that he can even win at all. It seems that once the difference in skill is great enough, this shouldn’t happen at all.

Also, we know that throwing and mixing up beat parries. But you can’t mixup high/low/throw against an empty jump. You can make them parry jabs forever, or do nothing and attack when they hit the ground. But mashing on jab and teching throws gets old fast.


#11

its not so simple as switching to lows or highs, parry traps can be annoying because they are so safe and easy to do, not to mention you can just switch to block if all else fails… but what you could comfort yourself in is knowing that most parry baits are low…

ive been victim of the intermediate player with parry baits, and its frustrating at first, but you have to realize that its all he has, and its something you can get around…

its all about having a mental edge over the person. you fall for it once, ok it happens, just dont let it happen again. many whiffed moves are evident of parry baits. the best advice i ever got to get around parries is to simply change the tempo of your attacks. on wakeup, if u know the persons going low for a parry, crouch, you can see him go for the parry so dont attack. if he stays in crouch you can overhead or grab him.

i understand the frustration of getting low parried(40% bar from dudley). however you can jerk your character animations around back and forth, not really doing anything, and it will frustrate that person. they may just throw a move out, and by the time youve seen the move you can counter it…

i dont know if this is helpful, but its some stuff i do…


#12

MrQuotes: Changing timing is a good idea. That’s what I have been trying to do, and it definitely has increased my success, but it feels so strange. It forces me to play really uncomfortably. It’s like I know I can win, but I hate to admit I have to change my game. I feel like I should be able to run a parrier into the ground.

That’s why I think parries are too good. They aren’t a consistent way to win, but they allow an intermediate player to compete when he/she is outclassed.


#13

Well, I don’t think your brother, being the inspiration for this thread and primary player you are griping about, has a chance against players like Daigo and KO no matter how much he “random” parries.

So, to agree with you, yes, once the difference in skill is great enough, they shouldn’t win at all.

I guess you’re not there yet! :smiley:

One thing you should consider here - you say that once the difference in skill is great enough, they shouldn’t be able to win. You’re right. And from what I’ve seen, your execution and mixups are better than his. However, he is more skillful than you are at parrying (or knowing when to parry), so his talent for parrying is what is beating you, which seems like skill to me, just not the same skill you have. Should your skill win more? Sure. Does it? Yes. So don’t complain that you lose sometime - just get better at not attacking haha!


#14

I think you guys just aren’t being creative enough.

If you opponent is empty jumping into tech throw… that’s an easy guard to break!

Start with your anti air jab…
if parried, jab again
if parried again… then pause…
then late upper -or- low short short supa!

or the frankie3s special… when they empty jump in… look like you are going to anti air or throw, instead throw out a low forward into combo finisher… they will input a forward parry and land on a low hitting move.

fun fun!


#15

I was just hoping to get peoples thoughts and ideas on how they get around parries.

Things like what paulee is posting, pretty solid mind games to get around parries, I think could help a lot of people.


#16

Haunts, listen to Paul he’s a beast. he owns my Elena for free and plus some. keep at it, one day you will be wishing that people would empty jump in against you. most good players stay on the ground.


#17

Wow, you guys got deep into the Parrying aspect. Also what is a “Red Parry”


#18

red parry is a parry which occurs if youre blocking, and while blocking u parry… u got like a 2frame window to just redparry… so it only happens 2/60th of a second… so u really got to know the rhytms of the moves to redparry dudleys MGB or Ryu’s tatsumaki… etc etc…

try redparrying red fireballs… ex fireballs… superfireballs… etc


#19

I know, its just that I went thru too many of this type of topic before, and u know there are ppl on SRK who would never never admit that they are wrong…

IMHO, parrying makes the game more fun, allow more options and depth. 3s is based on mind games, taking the right chances and working for that small opening or oppurtunity to win.


#20

I think blocking is cheap. They should take out blocking so you have to parry or tech everything.