Parrying an opponent's V Reversal

ryu

#1

EDIT: There’s super easy OS for this that pretty much invalidates most of the stuff I say in the original version of this post. I’m gonna leave it there in case someone finds it useful or wants to laugh at me wasting my time though.

The Option Select here is that you do an attack of some kind that’s + on block, then a second attack followed immediately by a V skill input. An easy example is cr.LP, MP (V skill). Just hit crouching light punch, then medium punch with normal timing, then immediately tap V skill. So if they just block it then all that happens is those two normal moves, the parry doesn’t happen because when you press the buttons you’re already in the middle of the medium punch… But if they do a v reversal when the jab hits the momentary flash freeze will cause your medium punch to never happen even though you hit the button. This will cause the parry to come out instead. You have to work a little bit on the timing to make sure the parry isn’t too early or too late, but it’s not terribly hard to do if you set the dummy always block and use the guard recording option to make it V reversal.

You can react to a successful parry and punish Birdie, Bison and Ibuki with combos that start with HK, and punish Alex, Balrog, Cammy, Dhalsim, Guile, Juri, Karin, Laura, Necalli, Mika, and Ryu with f+HP.

A few caveats, against Chun Li, Ken and Zangief this will only work against them using V reversal against a jump in attack. If they immediately V reversal against any grounded normal then it will hit you either during the recovery of the initial move or during the start up of the parry. Also a significant portion of the cast have V reversals that don’t hit you, so obviously you can’t parry those.

I’ve done some more testing now. Turns out there’s a bit of a mix up to this. There’s an early timing and a late timing for both the V reversal and this OS. If you do the OS early and they V reversal late then you get hit and the same goes for the other way around. I still think it’s very much worth it though seeing as it’s a 50/50 where you get a giant punish and they hit you with a measly bit of grey life damage. Though it does make me think that if you have a read that they’re going to V reversal it might be worth watching and trying to react instead of OSing it.

So if Ryu wasn’t already top tier enough for you, now he can automatically turn a V reversal by 2/3 of the cast into a huge punish with the easiest OS since crouch techs. Brace yourself for nerfs when that balance patch comes. (in hindsight this was a bit hyperbolic of me)

ORIGINAL POST FOLLOWS

Saw Tokido do this in pools at CEO, though he didn’t manage to follow up with a punish. Decided to look into it and share what I found.

Obviously against Rashid, Vega, Fang, and Nash they don’t hit you so there’s nothing to parry. You just have to chase it down.

Additionally Chun Li, Ken, and Zangief’s V Reversals are significantly faster than the rest of the cast. A V Reversal from these characters will consistently hit your blocked MP before you can recover. Even if they use the reversal against something fast like a jab I’ve found myself unable to react fast enough that the parry clears its startup period and I just get counter hit. It’s still possible to do and very rewarding if successful, but seems to require a hard read and if you’re wrong you open yourself up to high damage counter hit combos. Personally that’s a risk I would very rarely take.

Against all the characters who don’t fall into the categories above Ryu can see an opponent’s V reversal against any of his light normals and most medium normals and react by parrying the V Reversal. This gives you an excellent chance for a high damage punish, and if you mess up the worst that happens is you take some grey life damage and get knocked down, probably too far away for the opponent to get a proper meaty attack on you. There is one tricky part of punishing V Reversals after a parry though. V Reversals stay invincible for a very long time, through their active period and even through part of their recovery. If you use a fast attack immediately after your parry then it will whiff straight through them as they are still invincible. I find f+HP to be an excellent solution for this problem. The startup is long enough to let the invincibility wear off and you don’t have to worry about timing out your attack, just do it immediately.

At the moment I’ve only tested this as Ryu vs Ryu and Ryu vs Ken, but I plan to explore it with every character and update this post with what I find.

UPDATE: For roughly half the cast Parrying the V Reversal and then doing f+HP and comboing from there is ideal. Characters this works on:
Alex (slower than the rest of the cast, parry has to be times slightly later)
R Mika
Ryu
Cammy (watch for the side switch, airborne for part of recovery but f+HP won’t hit until grounded)
Necalli
Guile
Laura
Karin
Dhalsim

Bison and Birdie are a little different, their V Reversal recovers too quickly for f+HP to land. There is still a brief moment of invincibility that will cause immediate MP or cr.HP to whiff. You need to slightly delay your attack. You’ve got time for a very short period of walking forward if you want to get closer for a bigger punish. ANOTHER UPDATE: If you want a good balance of damage and reliability for these two use standing HK and combo out of it. I’ve never had it whiff. Don’t know why I didn’t think of it right away.


#2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YM7VqtvdpI

At the beginning of this video Tokido parries Bison’s V-reversal a couple of times. It makes me wonder if he is reacting or has he found a way to OS the parry?


#3

I think he’s reacting. I’ve been able to successfully react against Bison and other characters with the same speed V reversal in situations that randomly alternated between V reversal and just blocking so I know it’s possible. I’m not aware of a way to OS it. Can’t think of a good way to off the top of my head either.


#4

Quick update, Balrog you can parry on reaction and punish with f+HP, Ibuki you can parry on reaction and punish with HK


#5

There’s an OS for this - saw on YouTube somewhere… can’t find it at the moment though @-@


#6

Thought a bit more on it, the freeze from the V reversal might make a second attack button with normal timing and then V skill right after work? Though even if it works the timing would vary based on how they time their V reversal.


#7

I’ve been working at practicing this more since I think it will be a significant part of what makes Ryu strong in this game, especially against characters who lack invincible options. I’ve been using the guard recovery action recordings to make the dummy randomly select from either an immediate V reversal, a delayed V reversal or just holding back to block. Then I set the dummy to block and hit the dummy with standing MP while focusing my vision on the opponents side of the screen where the “V Reversal” message will pop up. So far my best streak of reacting with the correct option is 8 in a row. It gets said a lot that when you can do something 10 times straight that’s when it will start to work sometimes in a match, so I’m hoping it will start to pay off soon.

Eventually I hope to do this while also setting the opponent to randomly block so that I can practice hit confirming in case they don’t block. At the moment my success rate for this is very poor though.


#8

Turns out I’m dumb. It’s super easy to OS it. Just do something like crouch jab, stand medium punch with normal timing and then immediately tap V skill. If they reversal it eats the input for the second button making nothing come out and you parry instead. It also works with MP, cr.MP (parry)

It is possible for people to V reversal in a way that keeps this OS from working by waiting to V reversal until after you’ve pressed the second attack but that’s maybe a 2 frame gap they’ll have to hit, any earlier and it gets parried, any later and they end up doing a slow heavy button and get counter hit. Still doesn’t work on Chun, Ken or Zangief since their reversal will hit the startup of the parry even after a jab if they do it immediately. Alex’s slow V reversal might also throw off the timing, I’ll probably test that soon.


#9

Still looking into this more. Parry has 7 active frames and the smallest amount of blockstun Ryu can do is I think 9 frames with crouching light punch. That means that there’s always some timing of V reversal that will work against you when you use the OS. It’s still super useful to throw into your blockstrings any time they have the meter to V reversal, but I’m thinking if you have a strong read that they’re going to use a V reversal you’ll have better odds if you watch for the message and react.