Parrying: Good or Bad?

With all the hub bub about people’s wishlists for SF4, i noticed so many people seem to be against parrying. I always considered it a GREAT addition to any fighting series: it’s a great equalizer in terms of balancing gameplay, or so I tend to believe.

With that said, i was wondering why some people simply dont like parrying. Am i missing something cheap/abusive/corny about it? Seriously, why are some people against it?

Do the same people hate Just Defend, or are they different enough to like one/hate the other?

(I tried searching for topics related to this, but couldnt find any. If there’s one up, and this one needs to be closed, that’s fine, i just ask that someone please link me to the former topic.)

(Though I mentioned SF4, please dont go into sf4 wishlists/debates. The game is still rumor for now, no need to go into it.)

(I realize it’s been a while since i posted about anything, man i feel like a troll)

Hating parrying may just have more to do with what system they enjoyed the most. Some embrace the parry system. Others far preferred the Zero/Alpha/ST variation of play. Parrying really goes “against” the older, more traditional systems. Even though Alpha is a bit different from ST, they are still in some ways similar to each other, but parrying in SF3 really changed the whole atmosphere.

This is the opinion of a scrub though, and I might just be spouting tons of garbage. But from watching vids, etc., and just playing myself, the parrying system, and just the SF3 method in general seems radically different from the other stuff, hence why some might be against it.

shrug Parrying was in CVS too, and those two games were basically a gamut of "play styles’ smashed together into some kind of coherent whole. Not sure if people didn’t particularly like its addition in those games either.

Wasn’t there another thread about this subject before? Not to mention the whole SF3: Good sequel or not thread, basically covered most of the views on parrying.

Ponder’s 2D vs. 3D “essay” in Dom 101

Like, 9 paragraphs in, he breaks down the common anti-parrying sentiment. This topic is the deadest horse you could’ve possibly picked.

Also, what did you search for? This argument has had MANY names, most before mid-late 2003.

Parrying = Good in 3s only, it sucks in everything else tho. There’s just something about parrying in 3s that’s just different from parrying in SF3NG, 2I, and CvS2.

ah, thanx tons for a link. yeah i figured it’s a well-argued debate, but i seriously had little idea on what other people considered the the cons are.

i searched for parry, parrying, just defend. nothing i saw seemed like a blatantly obvious pro/con debate, though if there was one, i apologize for sucking at search options :xeye:

feel free to close i guess? unless other people want to push the topic, or feel there’s something new to say.

The parryinwg window seems to have lowered alot in CvS2 than 3rd strike. So I mostly use K-groove but its a pain trying to remember how to parry from switching back and forth from games.

The strange thing about parrying is that the way it negates certain strategies or play styles seems to be both a good thing and a bad thing depending on the situation. It prevents stale fireball traps, but also makes otherwise legit tactics useless. Perhaps if parrying had a cost, such as a small amount of super meter, or guard meter (assuming the next game uses gurad meter… but it shouldn’t actually shorten the entire guard gauge like alpha counters do in A3, but it would just subtract an amount, as if you had blocked 1 or 2 strong hits), it would be used more sparingly and allow for more flexible play?

Burning meter to parry? I honestly don’t think it would even be worth it, then.

A lot of people would want a whiff animation for parrying.

Using meter to parry isn’t necessarily a bad idea. Look at Fault Defense in Guilty Gear. That uses tension guage, but it’s basic part of GG gameplay. It just shows that anything is worth to minimize damage.

Parrying is a great system.

The SF III series in general has pretty good parrying. It doesn’t seem any harder in 3S than the previous two.

But CvS2?! The window is tighter than an Asian girl’s vagina. I can’t parry in the game, but the last time I touched P groove was years ago.

Oh yeah, I like parrying. I think its a great way to reward skill. Because parrying is an act of skill.

Parrying before 3S, especially air to air, often took away any opportunity to counter, the way it was retooled in 3S is much more satisfying.

While I’m not actually of the opinion that parrying is an entirely bad thing, I don’t think it’s good enough to justify the downsides. The downsides of parrying that I see are:

  • Parrying screws over the vast majority of players outside of Japan, because for us there aren’t any arcades to practice in, which means trying to practice against the computer, which really just comes down to analyzing and memorizing AI attack patterns. Said AI parrying experience is almost worthless against human opponents.

  • It’s unrealistic to the point of being silly – even for a fighting game. How the hell does a man actually parry a 200 pound man barreling toward him? Unless he’s an Aikido master, he doesn’t, and if he is, he doesn’t parry by sticking his palm out front.

  • Parry adds too much depth to the game, which makes is approachable to fewer players, and thus we get stuck playing the CPU again. I think one reason that SF3 didn’t catch on more, was that players didn’t want to spend absurd amounts of time trying to learn to parry. It’s similar to the way excessive depth keeps people away from the DoA games and Soul Calibur 2 - there’s so damned much depth that unless you’re an expert, it’s devolves into button mashing.

Your first point makes no sense, people outside of japan parry just fine.

Your second point is void because its a videogame. Who cares if its unrealistic, people in real life can’t throw fireballs.

Streetfighter in general is hard for new players to play regardless if parrying was there or not. And the reason people didn’t play 3s was because they all thought it was ass.

Parrying isn’t some magical tactic that only legendary masters can do. All you do is tap forward or down. Guess correctly and you just parried. Bait or read your opponent tap in a direction and you just parried.

You’re in DC??? And you’re saying this? It just sounds like you don’t even care enough about the game to bother learning, 3S is much easier to initially get into than many other games out on the market. You’re in the metro area, comp is all above you(MD…and I’m in VA, heh).

DOA and SC2 have depth? :confused:I thought button mashing was teh t0pz Ti3|2 h0ttN3$$.

Well I’d say CvS2 parrying is an act of skill due to the shortened frame window IIRC 3s = 9 and CvS2 = 3. Plus CvS2 parrying eliminated the “accidental parrying” in 3s. But still parrying overal is skill.

I don’t play competitively so I thought parry was great for when I played with pals, it made the game play different than other games, which was good. I hadn’t played a game with a parry like that, one anyone could perform (in 3D games sans DoA I find new people have trouble parrying, even if it’s simple like SC2) without needing much instruction.

So all in all I really liked parrying, and wish it wasn’t as hard as it tends to be in CvS2 (I mean I’m not saying it needs to be the 3s window, but a little more forgiving would be nice for casual play.) Heck I almost wish, as horribly as it would break the game, that for casual play that had made it so you could “choose” a game and play the characters using it’s playstyle exactly. Sure some characters would entirely break systems, but as I play with friends, it’d be fun anyway.