Pathway to Perfection: The Guy Improvement Thread

guy

#1

Awesome news guys. Iplaywinner was announced that June 15, a patch will be release to possibly balance some things in SSF4. In your opinion, in what areas should Guy be buffed? I point out several areas he needs serious improvement in. I posted this as a response in another thread, but since there’s a patch coming up, I figure it would be good to get some feedback from the Guy community on there wants and needs to make Guy more competitive. Post away!!!

In my personal opinion, I believe Guy is not as powerful in SSF4 as he was in previous titles. If possible, I would like for the Guy-mainers to post logical buffs for Guy that can improve his game. It may seem to early to completely say that this is true, but from what I have seen so far (from observing Diago and several other great players of the SSF4 community play Guy), the playstyle of Guy seems to be around primarily guessing games. He has great damage dealing opportunities in the corner, but other than that, he seems to be really unsafe and a good amount of his moves are not that fast.

Rather than me just ranting and complaining about it, here is some logical and menial suggested improvements that I feel would tremendously boost his game, with hopes that this could catch the developers’ eyes and make some improvements on him in the future.

So Here We Go:
[LIST]
[]1.)EX Hozanto should go under projectiles.
[
] 2.)c. MP -> LP. Hozanto is not a blockchain and pretty much any character with a “Dragon Punch” similar attack can reversal DP in between this sequence (a major headache for the players out there that come across DP spamming newbs online that would rather MASH than think). Basically, make LP. Hozanto faster
[]3.)c. HP should be special move cancellable
[
]4.)Shadow Kick and Neck Flip should have super armor of EX Run, unless the super armor was broken before the attack.
[]5.)Shadow Kick should have more active hit detection frames.
[
]6.)Bushin Muso Renge should can be jumped on start up. It should have similar properties, if not the same as Zangief’s ultra 1.
[]7.)c. HK and Shadow Kick should go under fireballs.
[
]8.)The arc of EX Bushin Flip should be more horizontal than vertical.
[]9.)Neutral Jump HK should have more hit stun
[
]10.)st. HP should have less start up frames.
[]11.)No post lag on Elbow cancel from Bushin Flip or d. MP on jump.
[
]12.)Less recovery frames on Shadow Run–HK.
[]13.)Overall faster normals (preferably st. MK).
[
]14.)Guy has no bread-and-butter anti airs (IMO). c. HP should have a bigger hit box.
[*]15.)Decrease post lag of empty Bushin Flip.
[/LIST]

I would appreciate it if you do not blast me if you do not like my topic. If it is true that the capcom developers pay attention to the boards, than this is nothing more than an attempt to better the character that we love to use. So please give your honest opinion about my topic and post something that you believe should be altered, changed, or whatever you want call it that would make Guy better. Hopefully my plea to better a ninja does not fall on deaf ears…lol. Post away!


#2

The content of the patch was announced already. No serious re-balancing will be done next month. I agree that certain things about the new characters may need to change, though.


#3

:bluu: so these announcements…was anything about Guy announced?


#4

1- It’d be nice but this could be resolved with just his regular hozantos being faster,
2- I honestly wish he had this back
3- He hasn’t had that ability since Alpha 3 nor did he have in Capcom fighting Jam, its very doubtful plus if you manage to hit this you can land st hk, or FF chain
4- That would make the move entirely broken a nice concept yes but most of the cast can’t break with on it and EX Run should only be used to apply pressure on zoners, to escape certain things, and punishment/EX Run glitch.
5- I agree
6-This would make it broken, Guy’s Muso Renge has always been able to be jumped out of, giving him a 0 frame command grab would be foolish, granted yes it would be nice but be realistic here.
7- Shadow Kick can go under certain characters fireballs but I agree should be most c. HK as well. But to be honest there is always mp hozanto, and mk tatsu And EX run if you are at a distance and anticipate the fireball
8- This honestly would be nice but for this to happen the speed of his bushin flip would need to be changed.
9- It never had a huge amount of hit stun in alpha, a nice touch yes but chances of you hitting this move out of safe jump aren’t great, d.MP would be more viable
10- It’s possible granted its possible
11- It’d be a nice touch, that or more block stun, bigger hitbox for cross up and bushin flip elbow should hit crouchers
12- Space it correctly and its safe do it poorly and its not, but it’s possible for them to do that
13- I honeslty want Lp to be faster, his some of his normals also need a bit more priority (St. MP and MK)
14- Cr. mp against majority of the cast, cr mk against dud, st hk, cr hp
15- That’s just crazy talk

Not much blasting you but just saying what is possible and honestly what could be fixed instead. His playstyle has always been a guessing game I would say, but everyone plays Guy differently, some are Rushdown but conservative, others are Defensive and rely on Punish, Mindgames are a BIG part of Guys game same with Punish, you honestly want to scare your opponent, TK Izuna is something you want to master for jump ins to keep them grounded, That shuts down a lot of characters game, with zoners (Guile) you want to keep a constant pressure on them, have them make a mistake and keep them from having distance, depending on the character is how your playstyle should be against with Guy.


#5

Might i add if they are spamming DP, bait and punish simple. Instead of doing cr mp, lp hozanto, do cr. mp, st mp or cr lp x2, cr mp. or TC lp hozanto. TC Run stop. Make them scared to DP by baiting them to do so.


#6

Honestly, if you just give Guy faster normals, slide able to go under fireballs, and give EX Hozantou the ability to go under fireballs / Super Armor instead, I’d be happy.


#7

From Eventhubs:
"Guy will no longer be able to be thrown while he’s crouching and in hit stun animation. A bug made it possible to combo throw moves while he was in this state. "

I don’t know how serious that can be right now, but it’s good this is getting removed before a lot of people find out.


#8

We might have a balance patch in the future guys so might as well contribute. I’m gonna post this in case Capcom wants to see Guy’s many weaknesses and in case the thread dies down. http://shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=235410

Now I’ll add to some improvements I would like to see

> Target Combo should not whiff so much on characters
>Fix the jump arc so it’s not so floaty
> Guy should be able to cancel from the first hit of Crouching MK.
>His MK SBK needs more invincibility on start up as it can be thrown and beaten out quite easily
> Guy needs a solid anti-air where it doesn’t cost him meter and it should be as reliable as most anti airs in the game.
> Ex. Hozzanto should have more invincibility frames because it gets beat out a lot currently.
> Ex. SBK should hit both sides
>Have cr.mp link to lp hozzanto
>Maybe have a bit faster hozzantos or have more invincibility frames when ducking to avoid fireballs better
>Give Guy the ability to use SBK while he is in the air. I don’t mind if this is in or not but I would like for Guy to get something new since many other characters have gotten new moves.

Others have already mentioned some changes that would be great for Guy. With this, he would be more liable, fun and competitive but still well balanced and not too strong.

Thank You


#9

MK SBK would be his anti air Albo it was in the alphas, so the more invincibility on start up would make this viable.
Jump arc wouldnt need to be fixed just make his jump faster is more like it
EX SBK does hit on both sides unfortunately just not on start up so they do need to fix that otherwise learn Auto correct EX SBK
EX Hozanto has no invincibility whatsoever currently but it should have some,
And i think everyone wants TC to not mess up that much

Guy is not a shoto does he really need SBK in the air he has Izuna and Elbow and Bushin flip to excel in the airso Tatsu in the air isn’t much never nor has he ever had it


#10

Is that a joke ? Seriousely guys, don’t over complain. Guy need some little better stuff, but not THAT much.

Be realistic, Capcom will never change all this stuff. Why not make Balrog a motion character ? That’s the same thing here, the more you ask, the less you’ll have.

Let’s keep it simple and stick with pro player opinion.
I’d like to ear them here.

From what I heard from some of them, Guy need little tweak to his frame data, and some very minor change :

  • Be able to cross up with d.mp
  • more priority and fixed hitbox on st.mp
  • faster St.mk ( 2 frame faster )
  • 2 hits Armor on run xx HK should be on the kick too, not only the run.

**THAT’S ALL. ** Keep with that, and I think Capcom will ear us.

No better ultra, no less floaty jump, no bushin chain hitting croucher, no better AA…


#11

Guy;s MK tatsu was his AA in Alpha 3 and it did a lot and it only beaten out by a couple of things and I still play Alpha to this day. Better Ultra… the only way to make it better is if U1 didnt give a nasty pushback, Less floaty jump would be nice his jump wouldnt need to be so slow in the air it never was in Alpha either, It moved pretty quick.


#12

Just fix the issue with his target combo and I’ll be happy. The jump thing would be nice, but it ain’t all that important to me. All his normals need either more priority or to be faster, because Guy’s normals get beat to death by other characters.


#13

yea thats what I meant by fixing his jump arc. His mk SBK sucks as an AA now so it needs more invincibility. As for air tatsu, I said I dont mind whether its in or not but I kinda wanted a new move since many other characters got some. It should be the lowest priority in the change list but if capcom feels like giving him something new then why not, other wise I’m more than happy with the necessary changes should they be made.


#14

Something I’d like to be improved (changed) about guy is to make his houzanto’s faster, similar to the honda headbutts, at the cost of making them unable to go under fireballs (in other words, the same as honda headbutts except without the invincibility frames)


#15

In order of preference.

One of the hozantos go under fireballs. I don´t really care what one.

Elbow is an overhead.

Consistency across the characters. Guy can combo some things in some characters and not in others. This is just depressing.

Make the ninja sickle comboable to something. Even FADC it´s fine.

I´d like to combo the izuna otoshi out of something. Even FADC it´s fine. Drop the dmg as u like, I just like to have the combo option.

Hurricane hits both sides.


#16

Originally HP would go through fireballs, its good that MP and HP go through but they are indeed slower they can at least make them faster because it was never possible to combo mp or hp hoz into but it could help apply pressure.


#17
  1. lower the hitbox on cl. st. fierce so his target combo doesn’t whiff so much, especially on smaller characters. his target combo has traditionally always been able to hit all characters during a crouch. don’t see why it should be different now.
  2. give st. strong more priority and have st. forward come out faster.
  3. 1st hit of cr. forward being cancelable would be really nice. also… extend the hitbox on the 2nd hit to tip of his foot so it’ll stop whiffing. it seriously looks like it should hit but his foot goes right through opponents.
  4. put more blockstun/hitstun on bushin flip elbow so we can’t immediately get thrown upon landing if it gets blocked.
  5. give invincibility frames on startup to ex shoulder. about the same as bison’s invincibility on ex scissor or close to it. or just make regular shoulder’s faster. yea they can go under fireballs but they’re too slow to punish, if you’re dealing with a dp character like ryu… he can fireball and if you use shoulder to go under… he can recover and dp you out of it.
  6. like some one else stated… cr. rh and command run slide should go under fireballs. wouldn’t even have to be both. if just one of them went under that’d be fine. it doesn’t make sense that he can get so low and not go under them.

that’s pretty much all i’d want to see changed. i think if those were changed he’d easily bump up to mid(even though ultimately i think he’ll end up mid tier) or just slightly above mid.


#18

Actually TC would miss on Karin is Alpha if she crouched, and on some occasions Shotos if you landed a counter it with MP. Otherwise it seriously SHOULDNT miss


#19

Guys, capcom is NOT going to be doing a balance patch. The only thing this patch does is take out some glitches(im assuming guy thrown in hitstun and fei infinite on juri).

There is absolutely no one in the cast who is bad enough to justify a balance patch, and IF one were to come(which i would bet money it won’t) you can damn well be sure it won’t be until after EVO.

Finally IF pigs fly and capcom throws a balance patch stop with the laundry lists of changes. From IV to Super, AN ENTIRELY NEW GAME, most old cast members got 1. a new ultra 2. VERY few modest tweaks. Spoki’s list is the only thing i can even see happening should a patch occur, which of course it almost certainly won’t.

If you like guy, either start practicing and getting used to what tools you have, or give up and switch characters or games. We’ve got pages and pages of why he’s not like he was in alpha or how he’s worse than dan, and quite frankly it’s not getting anyone anywhere. This is what he is, deal with it.


#20

I don’t think anyone expects a patch soon but they are working on the arcade version and there is a chance they will rebalance it just like Capcom said. If that doesn’t happen then we have one more chance in 2011 when Ono said they might do another title update via dlc, so until then it doesn’t hurt to post improvements that we would like.