Paying to win and other crap

Wanna know why Yun/Yang are OP in AE? My guess is that making them so is what dragged Japanese players back from SSF4 console to the arcade. If they sucked, it would’ve been ignored.

/conspiracytheory

One way I can see DLC characters being a problem (besides making the DLC characters OP) is if a company goes overboard and releases several DLC characters… like 10 or 12 etc at $5 each. Then in tournaments it’ll be hard to keep track of which systems has all those characters available (or at least the DLC character(s) that one or both of the players chose to main). How will that affect their tournament legality then?

Sure you can say UMVC3 has 12 new characters at $40 in a whole game, but imagine if each of those characters were just DLC for MVC3 instead? When you push them out in way that makes it so players can pick and choose who they want on their console, that can become troublesome.

Player 2 provided a system but it’s missing 2 out of 12 DLC characters like the rest of the consoles (except maybe one)

Player 1: "But I play Strider."
Player 2: "WELL I DON’T FUCKING HAVE STRIDER! USE YOUR ALT!"
Player 1: :crybaby:. "Let’s go play on that one over there."
Player 2: “THAT ONE DOESN’T HAVE DR. STRANGE. I FUCKING NEEEEEED TO HAVE DR. STRANGE ON MY TEAM!” :crybaby:

It would also probably hold up a Major if people had to wait to play on the only console that has the DLC character that half of the players main. This is just worst case scenario, sure, but I think it needs to be prepared for in case any particular company decides to go that route.
At least I don’t think people will bitch too much about Alt costumes. I’d love to see a Cody main complain about his Alt 1 costume not being available because it gives him +6 evasion. :rofl:

EDIT: After watching/hearing that video in the OP, I’m scared of that model being implemented to that extreme in fighting games and then working out for them financially (telling them there’s no problem in doing that… but I see a problem).

Bottom-line is people who play fighting games probably play them because they like fighting games as well as playing other people for competition. If you wanna continue to play WITH the competition, you’re gonna have to keep up with what the community agrees is acceptable/the standard. So if they put out characters that CLEARLY give you too much of an advantage and devalues the actual skill involved in playing the game (something I’d HOPE the community is against), and the players refuse to put their foot down and reluctantly pay for the DLC just so they can “keep up”, then that’s gonna be a problem for the competitive integrity of the game.

I feel like a lot of the players who have a Phoenix alt team in Marvel 3 and didn’t pick her because they actually like her, went to her reluctantly JUST to have an edge that people have a real hard time dealing with (you can see it on their faces)… and that was free. If they would’ve charged for something like that, I honestly wonder what the decision of the community would’ve been now that we are no longer in a period where “If it’s not in the arcade, it’s banned” or something to that effect. Now I see a more laid back approach to allowing the DLC characters so far, but at the time the DLC characters weren’t doing anything phenomenal or extremely easy-mode/broken to win.

Also him comparing it to buying sports equipment is bullshit. To me, DLC (especially game-changing) is NOT the equivalent of buying good sports equipment to have an edge. Good controllers, sticks, and lagless converters and setups etc. is our equivalent to that and even then some functions are banned from competition.
Getting a DLC character with an advantage is more like adding an extra play to the play-book that’s restricted to the opposing team if they didn’t pay for it. Like what if one basketball team was allowed to charge/shove the other team players without having a foul called on them ever? In that realm could people find that tolerable and put up with/pay for an advantage like that? More importantly is it actually good for the game? What about with fighting games?

I hope that company decisions don’t lead to paying for a shitty experience with FGs (I’ve heard plenty of people complaining they already have with recent games). But if it does start to go overboard, I also hope this community will have good enough judgement to take a step back and make a call when something is actually not worth supporting as the standard. Remember, people booing something does not make it illegal… those rules have to be set and agreed upon before the competition starts.

hey, that was a good post, man.

DLC fighters are not optional. I don’t care if they are Roll tier or Ivan Ooze tier. They are a very important part of the game, and saying that they are optional is like saying the ending to a story based game is optional.

Let’s be clear, they aren’t optional content, they are premium content needed to play the full game.I take the same issue with Civilization and any other multiplayer game with DLC only content such as this.

This is my gripe with DLC characters. They know how important they are to players like us and are clearly taking advantage of this fact.

that is why dlc content should be always part of an obligatory update, look at bb, the dlc chars are part of the updates, you can still play against people who has them without the need of buying them.
plus any tournament organizer should have all the dlc chars avaible from the very start

100% agreed here. One of the main advantages of fighting games is having the shit there for you to use: you only need to worry about how to put them to good use. No stupid grinding gold to buy a retarded item, no stupid killing CPU Dan over and over to reach level whatever so you can compete, and certainly no extra real money (I do not give a shit if it goes to Capcom or Taiwanese grinders) to have the best tools. That’s the way it has always been and that’s the way it should be. People can have an opinion and simply not accept the pay2play crap. We already have to deal with constant changes so that the highest level of play is never achieved cos there is not enough time for the games to be mastered, now we are having platform-specific crap for people to worry about with less and less time to adapt and prepare before tournaments. Fuck that.

lmao, so for example you would preffer to ban chars like platinum, valkenhayn, makoto (dlc) and mu (unlockable) just because they are a pain in the ass to unlock/buy
nice…

Platform specific stuff never comes up in serious play anyway so I don’t see why you are bringing this up.

I am not a supporter of DLC characters what so ever. Do I have a thought on why they should or should not be banned from XY tourney? Absolutely not. To me, a fighting game MUST have every character right when you buy the game, save for the unlockable(s) that you grind the arcade mode for. Maybe an extra mode or stage or something like that, released & sold more “for fun” than “for serious”.

I wouldn’t pay real money for Yun, Yang, Oni or Evil Ryu to save my life but bet your ass I’d pay for a 2v2 mode or something whacky. Not talking team battles either, but four characters on screen at the same time. It’d be broken, but it’d be fun. AND it wouldn’t alter tournament play what so ever.

I’d love to not spend an additional $500 dollars out of my pocket to buy all the consoles I get donated DLC and spend 5 days unlocking mu on each of them.

It’s about $8 CAD per Blazeblue character, there’s three right now but they’re adding relius soon too, that’s $32 per console, if I run a ten console tournament that’s $320 out of my pocket for characters that might not even get used. That’s a huge fucking increase in the cost of running a tournament . If I don’t wanna pay it outta my pocket then it gets tagged into the venue fee; which is already generally pretty high because shit’s expensive in Vancouver.

If you can buy them, then you can also log into existing users of community members, d/l the chars they bought w/o needing to pay all over again, and deactivate the user-console connection once the tournament is done.

and why in the flying fuck are you expending $320?
ps3 buy in one account and share it with 4 more
360, use the accounts of other users that are participating in the tournament and disable them later
and i find funny that you are complaining about the dlc chars but i bet that you wouldnt have a problem to buy the new games if they were on disc, lmao, GTFO

Wow, I’m pretty sure you’ve never actually run a tournament if you think things don’t get complcated once you start using borrowed gear because you can’t afford 10 PS3s as an expense.

You’d be surprised how many people don’t own shuma, jill, or just bought one of the DLC Blazeblue characters. Even just micromanaging shared data when you’ve got a shitload of people’s borrowed consoles is a huge pain, I would buy ten copies of Blazeblue game of the year edition or some shit that came with everything on the disc just to never have to worry about all the micromanagement or possible expenses of needing to buy more fucking DLC.

One time Expenses + conveinence >> Multiple small expenses + micromanagement nightmares + having to deal with people bitching + possibility of shit going wrong.

The less things I have to worry about on the day before when I actually get people’s consoles and have to sort everything the fuck out, the better.

i have (and not only for fighting games, racing games and soccer games aswell), that is why im telling you that for 10 consoles you only need to buy them in 2 accounts, 1 if you can get a friend to share the account for the tournament, and when it ends you only need to disable it in the ps3s

I never said it wasn’t a pain in the ass but it sounds to me like the real problem is you doing everything and people around you not willing to give a hand.
Basically that’s why we use our own consoles in our events so everything is ready right of the bat.

I find it amusing how this part was more or less ignored.

Current model: BBCS = disc release, $40 per console. All 4 DLC (and I think it’s pretty generous to count Relius at this point, since last I heard we don’t really know when, how, or even IF he will be released to the home console version as DLC; someone correct me if that’s no longer the case) = $32 per five consoles.
Grand total for 10-console tourney: $464.

“Good ol’ days” model: BBCS = disc release, $40 (more likely $50, but let’s say $40) per console. A year or two later, BBCS2 is its own disc release, featuring four brand-new characters! (Again throwing Relius in there). It would be priced at $20 at the absolute minimum.
Grand total for 10-console tourney: $600 (and again, probably a lot more than that, since fighting game quasi-sequels spaced a year or two apart were *rarely *as low as $20, back in the previous period of popularity for the genre).

Now, if you are saying that you’d rather pay more in order to have the convenience, then OK. But that doesn’t seem to be it. In fact…

vs.

I’m not sure WHAT you’re saying the problem is.

Is it the expense? Or the inconvenience? Because it’s not BOTH; if one takes the inconvenience head-on and just deals with it, stretching 2-3 accounts across 10 PS3s, then the cost is substantially LESS with the DLC model. If one says screw the expense, I don’t want to deal with all this account sharing, then the cost shoots up, but the inconvenience goes away.

And here’s a thought, about DLC as well as unlocking Mu: who is donating these hypothetical PS3’s for this hypothetical BlazBlue tournament? Are NONE of them (hypothetical) BlazBlue players? NONE of them just happen to already have all the DLC characters and/or Mu already unlocked on the donated system? Is that likely? (Note: that’s not sarcasm, that’s an honest question, since I haven’t run an event like this myself and thus couldn’t say one way or the other).

It’s both. It’s waaaaaaaay easier to get lent a disc than it is to get DLC downloaded onto 10 different consoles the night before, not only are more people going to have discs to lend out than DLC on accounts but people are generally more willing to lend you a disc or their consoles than give you their account info the night before.

Another issue is that generally the people lending us consoles don’t play certain games and thus don’t have unlocks /DLC for them, so we either need to move accounts and data around or just unlock shit, and I have had to sit there and speedrun mu on more than one incident.

The problem is you need to worry about both of these things, and you generally get the consoles either the day before or the day of the event and then you need to deal with all this shit. It’s a fucking nightmare and it would be easily relieved if everything that was in the arcade version was on the character select screen when you dropped the disc in ala Guilty Gear.

Having to worry about unlocking tournament legal characters should have gone the way of the dinosaurs ages ago, and DLC is an even bigger pain because there’s money and download time involved.

F that shit.
Shuma and Jill should be banned as far as I’m concerned now.