Peaches and Irish Whipped Cream - R. Mika Knockdown Omnibus

r-mika

#1

I’ve taken it upon myself to catalog all of R. Mika’s ways to create knockdown situations. I then spent time going over the timings to apply her best knockdown tools in each situation, depending on the wake-up choices the opponent makes.

This resource is currently quite thorough, but is also an ongoing project and will likely never be considered “complete” until SFV is dead and gone. If you have setups you’d like to add, please post them below and I will make an effort to keep the original post up to date. Also, I’m copying all of this from notes I’ve made over the last little while. It’s possible I made errors in transcription or testing, so if you find an error, please let me know where so we can test and update appropriately.

Topics this thread will cover include:

1./ A legend for interpreting any thread specific notation choices, as well as any operating assumptions or criteria used to evaluate setups.
2./ A list of all of the ways R. Mika can create a knockdown, and her subsequent options to apply meaty attacks for each wake-up timing available to the opponent. These will be sub-divided into broader categories.
3./ Possible Future Update A collection of reset situations and options R. Mika can apply to meaty attack opponents being reset.
4./ Possible Future Update A list of character-specific wake-up considerations and specific counter-tech or punishes (e.g. the Chun-Li EX SBK vs. R. Mika c.hk tech we found, we’ll also eventually need meaty throw vs. Dhalsim due to wake-up teleport invuln vs. strikes, etc.)


Section One

Operating Assumptions

1./ I am operating under the assumption that if you are in this thread, you understand general 2D notation. I will not be explaining notation for button inputs or cancels. I will, however, explain the specific abbreviations and formatting I am using for this thread.

2./ All of these timings will interrupt an opponent trying to wake-up with a 3 frame normal (i.e. Chun-Li’s c.lp), and will catch any opponent on the ground during their pre-jump frames. This is my criteria for each setup. Understand that some may therefore leave a 1 or 2 frame gap where an opponent with an invincible escape tool (i.e. Nash V-Trigger is invincible after the first frame) can escape. This has not yet been thoroughly tested for each set-up. I intend to include this information in the future as work on this project continues.

3./ These setups are specifically timed for Mika’s attacks only. Considered broadly for the purposes of this thread, an opponent has three options when rising from the ground: to use an invincible or armored reversal; to block; and to do anything else (press a button, jump, throw tech, etc.). These setups are all intended to beat the THIRD option (do anything but invincible moves or block). However, all of these setups can be easily adapted to end in a throw (to beat blocking) or to end with doing nothing and defending (to beat an invincible reversal). If you are doing this, keep in mind that you may need to delay your throw input depending on the attack it is replacing. f+hp starts in 10 frames, Mika’s throws start in 5. If a setup is intended to end with a f+hp, you may therefore need to wait and kill a few frames before attempting the throw, or you risk having it whiff.

4./ These setups are frame tight, unless otherwise noted. Because we’re dealing with timings that require precise timing, every string of inputs you see in a setup are intended to be done AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. There should be zero frames in between the end of one move or dash animation and the beginning of the next. The benefit of this is that you do not need to “eyeball” or manually time your attacks - if you stick to the script, your timing will work. That said, there are some situations where the knockdown is so short that manual timing is the only option to achieve a meaty timing for specific moves. If any manual timing is required, the setup will note that in the description. If it is not so noted, assume the setup is frame tight.

5./ We don’t want to meaty with “bad” moves. There may be corner cases where it is desirable to use specific moves that we otherwise wouldn’t consider (again, c.hk vs. Chun-Li EX SBK comes to mind), but in general we’re trying to avoid hitting with moves like c.mp or c.mk. We want to stick to tools with a good payoff if successful, and limited risk if thwarted. Preferred options therefore include f+hp, s.mp, s.lk, occasionally f+mp or f+mk, and so on.

Thread Legend

NR - No Recovery; a situation where the opponent does nothing and rises at the latest possible timing.
QR - Quick Recovery; a situation where the opponent inputs either Down or P+P while being knocked down and rises at the earliest possible timing.
BR - Back Recovery; a situation where the opponent inputs either Back or K+K and rises 5 frames after the QR timing.
C - A “C” will precede a QR or BR indication if the setup is corner specific (opponent in corner)
BC - A “BC” will precede a QR or BR indication if the setup is corner specific (R. Mika in the corner, or Back to Corner)
OS - Option Select; this setup is timed such that it can interrupt an opponent trying to jump or jab in both QR and BR timings.
Inputs in Italics - Italics will be used to indicate inputs that are necessary to achieve proper meaty timings (they are being used to kill a specific number of frames). These inputs are not intended to make contact with the opponent.
Inputs in Bold - Bold will be used to indicate the attack or input intended to make contact with the opponent.

    • An asterisk will be used to indicate attacks that are true meaty attacks, that is, their active frames will overlap directly with the first frame an opponent’s hurtbox re-appears after a knockdown (NOTE: These will be updated as time goes on, currently this has not been heavily tested)
      ( and ) Around Inputs - The open and close parenthesis ( and ) will be used to indicate a series of inputs that continue the setup in order to catch an opponent choosing to use a NR timing, as opposed to a QR or BR. Therefore, there will be no separate line for an NR after a knockdown. Instead, the setup will be indicated as either QR or BR, and then be followed by a series in parentheses which will defeat NR timings.

Section 2

Three-Tech Knockdowns

This class of knockdown allows the opponent to NR, QR, or BR. As the opponent has the most options, they are also therefore the most difficult to apply with consistent success. However, in some cases an OS is available which can defeat both options (QR or BR), though generally the reward is less than having used the QR or BR specific timing.

LP/MP/HP/EX Shooting Peach:
QR - dash, s.mp (s.hp, f+hp) or (c.hp, f+hp)
QR - dash, s.lk* (s.lk, dash, f+hp) or (s.lk, s.lp, c.hp)
QR - jump forward, j.lk (crosses up) (s.hp, f+hp) - Note: This setup may not be timed to beat wake-up actions, but all versions of Shooting Peach leave you at ideal spacing for a j.lk cross-up, which is worth noting.
C-QR - s.lk, f+hp (s.hp, f+hp)
BR - dash, f+hp (s.hp, f+hp)
OS - dash, f+mk (dash, f+hp)

c.hk - Note: CC timing will be the same as the NR extensions
QR - c.lk, s.mp (c.mp, f+hp)
QR - c.lp, f+hp (s.mp, f+hp)
BR - s.mp, f+mp (s.mp, f+hp)
BR - slight walk, f+hp (s.mp, f+hp) - Note: This requires manual timing if you want to use f+hp, but the payoff can be worth it.
OS - s.lk, f+mk (s.lp, f+hp)

Two-Tech Knockdowns

This class of knockdown (all are throws or attack throws) only allows the opponent to NR or QR. No BR is possible, and an attempted BR input will result in a QR instead. These knockdowns are preferable for the purposes of post-knockdown pressure because the opponent can effectively only rise at one timing for the purposes of Mika pressure (remember, these strings will cover NR and QR with good reactions). This plays much more strongly into R. Mika’s general game-play style of creating a point blank mix-up the opponent must deal with.

Normal Throw (LP+LK)
QR - Nothing. The opponent rises too quickly. However, an immediate EX Shooting Peach can reach them in time to armor through a jab, and catch a jump low enough to the ground to connect with all 3 hits. Risky, but it is an option. Even a forward dash can be punished by an opponent using QR and looking for it. I think savvy opponents will eventually learn to always QR this throw as Mika has very poor options afterwards.
NR - dash, dash, s.mp
NR - dash, s.lp, f+hp

Back Throw (b+LP+LK)
QR - Nothing. Dash may be safe here? Need to test more. EX Shooting Peach tech from normal throw may also apply, but haven’t yet tested.
C-QR - slight walk, f+hp (c.hp, f+hp) - Note: manual timing required, but f+hp is very strong if it can be applied to their wake-up.
C-QR - c.lp, c.lp (TBD)
NR - dash, dash, s.lp, f+hp

Crouch Throw (LP+LK vs. Crouching Opponent)
QR - slight walk, f+hp (c.mp, f+hp) - Note: manual timing required, but f+hp is very strong if it can be applied to their wake-up.

LK/MK/HK/EX Wingless Airplane - Note: I thought EX was timed differently, but some work on both? May require further testing.
QR - dash, s.mp (f+mp, f+hp)
QR - slight walk, f+mk (TBD)
QR - slight walk, f+mp (TBD)
QR - cross-up j.lk (TBD) Note: This setup may not be timed to beat wake-up actions, but it leaves at ideal spacing for a j.lk cross-up, which is worth noting.
QR - MP Shooting Peach (s.lp, s.mp)
BC-QR - s.lp, s.mp (c.mp. f+hp) or (f+mp, f+hp) - Note: this applies when Mika puts herself into the corner with LK/MK/HK Wingless Airplane.

LP/MP/HP Rainbow Typhoon
QR - Nothing.
BC-QR - f+hp (s.lk, s.lk, f+hp) - Note: applies when Mika is cornered before starting the throw.
NR - dash, dash, dash, f+hp

LK/MK/HK Brimstone
QR - dash, s.mp OR s.lk (f+mp, f+hp)
C-QR - s.lp, f+hp (s.lk, f+hp)

Critical Art
QR - dash, s.mp* (s.hp, f+hp)
QR - dash, f+hp (s.mp, f+hp)
QR - HP Peach (s.lp, s.mp)

V-Reversal
QR - dash, s.lk (s.mp, s.lp, s.mp)
QR - dash, s.mp (f+mp, f+hp)
QR - HP Peach (s.lp, s.mp)

One-Tech Options

This class of knockdown includes both of R. Mika’s EX Command Throws. They only allow a single wake-up timing.

EX Rainbow Typhoon
Nothing ever. Even if done with your back to the corner, you’ll be pushed back out and into neutral. You still get the side switch, but are never close enough to apply wake-up pressure.

EX Brimstone
Note: There are no corner setups for EX Brimstone because the animation will always push you far enough out of the corner that it is irrelevant.
QR - cross-up j.lk Note: This setup may not be timed to beat wake-up actions, but it leaves at ideal spacing for a j.lk cross-up, which is worth noting.
QR - HP Peach
QR - s.lp, c.hp
QR - slight walk, s.hk - Note: Manual timing.
QR - s.[hk] - Note: Very short charge time required, must be manually timed.
QR - slight walk, f+hp - Note: Manual timing.
QR - s.lp, f+mp


R.Mika Combo/Tech Thread: "Pull Out All The Stops!"
Street Fighter V Balance/Match Up Discussion - SHOW ME YOUR MATCH UPS
Rainbow Labs Inc.: a summary of Mika technology
R.Mika Combo/Tech Thread: "Pull Out All The Stops!"
R.Mika General Thread: She's Stone Cold
#2

Section 3: Resets

Because of a conversation that came up around using the PP, s.[hk], c.mp reset in the corner, and learning it was not as good as I thought it was, I ended up spending a bunch of time testing R. Mika resets today.

This was actually way more useful than I thought it was going to be, and I came up with a lot of stuff that I hadn’t tested before. The testing wasn’t quite as rigorous as what I did with the knockdown section above, but I think I hit on all of the most important situations. As with the knockdown section, this comes with the disclaimer that, while I consider this to be thorough, again it can always be expanded upon.

The formatting here is going to be different from the Knockdown section. I’ll take to time to think of a legend later, and maybe the section doesn’t need one. I’ll also make an effort later to write down how much damage each individual string does. I will, however, copy and paste two of my own “Operating Assumptions” from above, because those same two assumptions also apply to these resets. Specifically:

NOTE - All of these resets, mid-screen or corner, are for post Passion Press (aka PP or f+mp, mp) situations. I will not bother to list how you combo into the PP itself, I’ll just discuss what to do from the PP through to the reset itself. I still need to do some testing on the f+hp scenarios (no PP, corner only), so those will be updated later. Otherwise, if there are some important ones I’m neglecting, please bring them to my attention and I’ll update the thread after I can confirm via testing.

Mid-Screen Resets

PP, back dash, dash, c.hp (reset)…
Frame advantage after reset: +2
Guaranteed Trap Normal: s.mp
Notes: This is the standard midscreen reset right now, but is actually not very good. Any opponent can mash a light normal and counterhit a f+hp. If you are going to use this reset, I therefore recommend using s.mp instead, as it will interrupt 3f buttons.

PP, back dash, dash, c.mp (reset)…
Frame advantage after reset: +6
Guaranteed Trap Normal: s.mp (vs. 3f light characters) OR f+hp (vs. 4f light characters)
Notes: I messed around with R. Mika’s other normals to see how much advantage I could get after a mid-screen PP. I wanted to be +7 at minimum, which is enough for f+hp to beat everyone’s everything (blah blah invincible stuff disclaimer blah blah). It turns out, this setup is a frame shy of being good enough for 3f characters, but is legit vs. 4f characters.

PP, back dash, forward jump, jf.hp (reset)…
Frame advantage after reset: +11 at least
Guaranteed Trap Normal: f+hp (after a slight delay)
Notes: This is way better than the c.hp version of the reset. You have so much advantage before the opponent hits the ground after the jf.hp that you have to WAIT to input the f+hp or it will whiff completely before they hit the ground.

PP, back dash, very slight forward walk, jump forward, jf.lk (cross-up reset)…
Frame advantage after reset: +7 at least
Guaranteed Trap Normal: f+hp
Notes: Don’t try this one without practice. The timing to cross-up with the jf.lk is very tight. Too soon, you hit in the front. Too slow, you whiff altogether. I’m listing this because crossing someone up while resetting them totally screws with their heads. Mediocre players will block the wrong way and just eat the f+hp. Better players will be so excited about being better players that they’ll know to block the right way. That’s the part where you throw them. Serves you right for blocking!

Corner Resets

PP, s.[hk], c.mp (reset)…
Frame advantage after reset: +4ish (I’ll explain the ‘ish’ below)
Guaranteed Trap Normal: s.mp
Notes: This one is honestly just strange to me. Here’s what I know - after this reset: f+hp (10f) loses to a 3f jab; f+mk (8f) loses to a 3f jab; s.hp (7f) beats a 3f jab, but isn’t really a good button post-reset; s.mp (5f) beats a 3f jab; buffered hcb+p/k (5f) whiffs completely before they hit the ground. I’d think that at +4 the command throw would be possible, but I actually think the difference of ONE active frame (two for command throws, three for s.mp, both are 5f startup) is the difference between them hitting the ground or not. Therefore, use a buffered hcb,f+p/k to throw after the reset. The extra one frame from the forward input is the difference between whiffing completely on an airborne opponent and catching them on the ground.

PP, f+hp, c.mp (reset)…
Frame advantage after reset: +7 at least
Guaranteed Trap Normal: f+hp
Notes: The standard. Everyone has seen this reset, and it turns out it is still really good. It is worth noting that if you time c.mp so Mika’s head hits the opponent as high in the air as possible after the f+hp, then you can VTC the c.mp and walk right under them into the corner for a cross-under reset. I didn’t know if it was possible to do this consistently before testing it, but it’s all about catching them with c.mp as high in the air as possible. It’s consistent if you can learn that timing.

PP, jump back, jb.lk (side switch reset)…
Frame advantage after reset: +7 at least
Guaranteed Trap Normal: f+hp
Notes: Way easier than the mid-screen j.lk cross-up reset, but everything I said about screwing with your opponent applies here, as well. Throw them into the corner, jump so they can bounce back out, hit with j.lk on the way down and now your back is to the corner, then hcb+p them back into the corner anyway. More swag than practical, really, but I thought it was worth mentioning.


#3

Reserved 3


#4

Thanks for this man. Bookmarking it and will add shit if I find anything that isn’t already covered.


#5

Happy to help!

*** UPDATE ***

Check the second post, I added a new section (Section 3), which contains the information on resets I was testing earlier.


#6

Question about some of the meaty peach setups, how plus/minus am I if they just get up and block? Usually a blocked peach is an easy punish but if it can be safe or even plus when meaty then I can see that fucking with an opponent trying to punish it. But if it’s like -2 it’s still basically safe but I kind of give up my turn at that point. Specifically the ones after Wingless Airplane and EX Brimstone.


#7

HP Peach has 13 active frames and is -12 on block, so with perfect timing you can even end up at +1.


#8

To be 100% honest I did not test for punishability on block in these setups. It just occurred to me that Peach had sufficient range to be solidly meaty in these circumstances. It is highly likely they can be punished, so if you want to test (or I’ll do it later), set the dummy to guard after first attack, record a guard recovery c.lp with a 3 frame c.lp character, and see how bad it is.

That was not at all intended to be a safe timing, but rather an option for easy, high damage if you had the “hard read” on them doing something other than blocking. I got the idea from testing setups with Cammy. Midscreen she has absolutely no way to meaty after a throw, UNLESS she wants to bet the farm on a Spiral Arrow. If you have a read on them not blocking, Peach is a damaging option. No idea about safety on block.

That does raise a good point though - in a future update of this resource I’d like to test each of these to see how meaty/positive on block some of the setups actually are. There are definitely ones that are far more positive on block than they would be normally (i.e. dash, s.mp after a QR on Peach knockdowns should be 0 instead of -2 because I believe only the last of the move’s active frames connects).

So… yeah. Buyer beware.


#9

Ah ok, so following that math, LP peach could theoretically go up to -1 (usually -7 with 6 active frames) and MP peach could be as good as -2 (usually -10 with 8 active frames). Of course whether these setups actually have you hit on the last active frame I don’t know.

Gotcha, I’ll probably not prioritize the meaty peach ones then, I prefer my oki to be safer. If there ends up being a HP meaty peach setup that is +1 then that’s one I’d love to add to the arsenal! Thanks for all your hard work.


#10

Wow, youre a king. a lot of really sick info here. ill be sure to look into this when i have to sit down and play. Thanks in advance!


#11

Are you sure f.hp c.mp in the corner is +7. Hameko had a video showing it was +12 and you could whiff a c.lp to kill frames and end at +2.


#12

Are you sure that the +12 is not after a raw f+HP -> cr.MP as f+HP pops people up higher when used outside of a combo?


#13

There’s also a certain amount of variance on the timing of the PP, f+hp, c.mp version of the reset because you can delay the c.mp to hit the opponent lower to the ground. Unless I’m going for the walk-under VTC stuff, I’d prefer to time it closer to the ground so they land on the f+hp, assuming I’m trying to meaty after the reset. The c.lp thing you’re talking about could be good if you’d rather kill some time and set up a command throw/s.mp mix-up, however.


#14

This is the video I was talking about


#15

One mixup that I haven’t seen anyone use but me but I swear that it’s really good is: Whenever the opponent doesn’t do any sort of quick rise or back rise and I have V Trigger stocked I will do meaty st.HP xx Neutral V Trigger. This will do the following:

If the st.HP hits you can do f+MP (no extension) and then either st.HP xx HP Peach/Super or another f+MP with extension and do whatever followup you want.

If the st.HP is blocked, thanks to it’s low pushback you can do HP/EX Typhoon if the opponent stays there, if you notice a trend where the opponent starts moving backwards it will whiff tho, but LP Typhoon with a little step forward before the motion is complete will snatch them.

If you see a V Reversal with the V Trigger freeze just do any command grab or even super them.

I expected this mixup to stop working once my local players started getting used to Mika and getting better themselves, but it has actually gotten better and I’m using it online with great results.

And a corner reset that is perfect when you know that st.HK > EX Airplane won’t kill, or when you’re looking for a one hit stun is:
f+MP > corner bounce > st.LP into any command grab or regular grab. So far only one dude has jumped out of it and I’ve ran into a ton of people and used it at my locals. Peeps are already expecting the f+HP > cr.MP situation so cutting it short will catch them at least once. Save it though, start overusing it and you’ll get destroyed really quick.


#16

question to the original post, does Throws / Command Throws work in situations where st MP is applicable? seeing they are both 5 frame moves it should work right?


#17

Yes.


#18

RainbowImpact tweeted a meaty setup after Wingless Airplane (no recovery). Setup is Wingless Airplane, forward dash, whiff throw, whiff f.HP, “meaty” command throw.


#19

How long do you have before a wakeup DP comes out? Are there any normals I can use to fake like I’m frame killing and setting up a meaty but then I can block in time?


#20

Depends on the move in question. Some reversals can be as quick as 3 frames (Necali’s EX Raging Light, Ryu’s EX Shoryuken) and some can be as slow as 8 frames (Rashid’s EX Spinning Mixer).

Any of these setups can be used to fake a meaty because you have enough frame advantage after them. After all, they’re meaty setups. Just do the same frame kills and don’t press a button. Simple as that.