Phoenix players please watch!

Fubarduck posted some anti-phoenix tech!!! I hope this doesn’t spread but i don’t know how practical this seems but it’s really bad. Besides the explanations in the video, it doesn’t seem like there’s a hard counter to this. Besides making sure you have the life/character lead over your opponent for them not to use this.

What do you guys think of this??

I need to hear Viscant’s thoughts on this. This is a big deal and it will spread as far as Phoenix usage does. It’s not execution-heavy/impractical in the slightest. This is a general subsystem tactic, so it has potential implications beyond Phoenix, so there’s even more reason for competitive players to learn it. This is troubling for her.

I need to hear Viscant’s thoughts on this.

I feel like the only application this has for phoenix players is against strider and dr. strange players who have them as anchor against us. And I guess we could use this as well if we only have 2 characters. But this kinda thing is moreso a mind game and about guessing which is even worse -__-

Well our guess is basically whether they will try the xfactor trick or not. If you think they are, wait until they pop xfactor then hit left or right and S. If you think they aren’t then just hit left or right then S initially. Even after we get 5 meters in this game we basically have to win a coin flip. Shit sucks.

Though if you have other characters left and managed to bring Jean in, I would lean toward doing it early. If they do the trick, you’re sacrificing Phoenix but it’s atleast getting them to pop their xfactor in level 1 or 2 still leaving you at a somewhat reasonable playing field. If they catch Phoenix when she’s the only one left, waiting until they xfactor to push exchange is probably best since players will be doing what they can to end it ASAP.

The problem with the second scenario is that you can never really be sure if your opponent knows how to do this trick and when you’re in a tournament in a 2/3 match setting, testing the waters basically means you losing a match.

I also think this has some more implications about how Phoenix players should use their xfactor. Against players who may know the trick, I would be more inclined to xfactor and kill their second character in order to take the exchange option away from them.

Exactly right. In situations where it’s Jean against 2, I would usually pop x-factor into L trap series if the last character is non threatening (no chip potential) or if the character I’m killing was Strange/Strider/Dorm/Akuma/Hawkeye, etc. Now it seems that this will become a mandatory part of all matches.

As a general rule this is going to make playing Jean much more difficult. Basically every character you’re playing against now is Morrigan where you have to think about how you’re going to get killed. General theory of playing against Morrigan is to walk into non-meter draining fireballs to get killed so you don’t get combo’d into meter suck. General theory against most characters now seems like it would be to walk into something early (random projectiles should do it) to get Jean to about 150k-200k health so it will be much harder to get some kind of confirm into launch into aerial exchange.

If there’s a bright side, that’s it; the biggest problem with this tech is the biggest problem with the Spiderman setup from vanilla. Spiderman actually did too much damage so confirming into maximum spider without killing Jean sometimes wouldn’t work out. That’s going to be our only defense to this, the fact that she has so little life that she might die before this can happen to her. Like if you’re slightly under half health, there’s no possible way Wesker can take a meter from you. Naked S, air A, side exchange does 181,600 (and of course dying to a side exchange still results in dark phoenix rising). Any kind of confirm makes it harder for him to take meter. ABC, launch, A, side exchange does about 290k. AB, launch, A, side exchange does a tick under 250k, etc.

So yeah, that’s your defense to this. Make a point of walking into something from a distance. vs. Wesker walk into gunshots. vs. Magneto, use flight air fireballs to force him to disruptor a couple times. vs. Dante, get air guitared etc. That’s your defense to playing the coin flip game.

–Jay Snyder

Wow, I never considered her health nerf a pseudo buff. Good shit.

not such a big deal. i never thought of this, thanks for sharing, but it really isnt such a bad trade. let them have phoenix, they just lost their x-factor. just wait it out on your incoming character and viola, advantage can be yours again. unless you saved phoenix for last. then this will work on you. or lets just say you used x-factor prematurely.

in any case, you really shouldnt be getting hit very easily with phoenix anyways.

Yesterday was the first time I’ve seen someone do this technique at a big tournament. OMG It’s Andre tried it against Phillipino Champ’s Phoenix but after he did the first TAC and x-factored, Phoenix died hahaha. If she had just a little bit more life, it would have worked. I have to watch the replays again when they are up because I’m pretty sure Phoenix had full life when he started the combo. I was surprised Knives didn’t do it against Phillipino Champ. He got two down aerial exchanges on her to build meter before killing her. Maybe he didn’t know about it or there is some fault to it.

It might be beneficial to let Phoenix take some damage from fireballs/assists or anything that doesn’t let them lead into a TAC to make sure Phoenix dies before they can do it.

People sure abused the hell out of this tech at NCR.

I would say that this is the stupidest “tech” in the game, but then people would just say Phoenix is the stupidest character in the game.

Andre tried to do it at 4:10 but he had hit Phoenix earlier with an attack. The first attack didn’t do too much damage but it caused the “tech” not to work. Such a simple combo kills Phoenix. Or maybe Wesker just does too much damage.