Plateauing...


#1

I feel everytime I learn something I need to cover my rear end with there’s so much more there I just don’t know…

How do you break through to that next level? I’m seriously left behind in the dust playing some of my old friends online…

Anyone who’s played me online care to comment? No hurt feelings I just wanna get better. Also let’s leave it generally open so anyone else with the same disposition can get help too.


#2

Reflection. Reflection and a break while using a different character.

Think about what makes you uncomfortable when you play. What does the other guy do that you do not like. When you watch other players you respect do you notice things you’re lacking?


#3

Well I can’t see it sometimes. I rewatched a set I did with cadis against his yun. One thing I noticed that he got me with was stand lk into shoulder to build bar into genei jin. I think I went a round or too spacing him out so he wasn’t in the appropriate distance to block string me into it but then I ran into other problems and it didn’t hold for long. I saved the set imma upload it I really would like some feedback if I put it up if that’s cool with u.

Thanks for the quick reply being terrible at 3S keeps me up at night apparently.


#4

At this point my progression in 3s has a familiar cadence. I play a lot, feel like I hit a plateau, play more, and eventually have some break through. Then the process repeats itself. That’s really simplified though. To break that plateau I found success with mixing up how I train. Just grinding out matches seemed conducive to plateauing. So what helped was…

-Having a teacher. Probably the most helpful thing
-Record your matches and review them
-Play 10 game sets with equal level players and discuss each others strengths and weaknesses afterward
-Watch MORE videos

Really just anyway to have a fresh perspective on your matches is golden.


#5

i feel that way a lot… i think it feels like a big problem, like, where do i start? but the solution is to start small. the easiest thing for me, because i’m lazy, is to just look at what is getting me killed, and then figure out or try solutions to not have it happen again. and there’s usually several things that i can change. implied is that you should play people who beat you, because frankly a lot of times i just want to play the game and not have to learn anything, but if i keep getting killed, my brain is like hmm, ok maybe i should pay attention… otherwise plateauing becomes more likely.

another thing, which is different from what i normally do because it’s more challenging, but which i imagine is crucial to a good offensive game, is to think of one new thing you can try (e.g., a mixup, or a setup), and then focus on doing that one thing for like the next x games. that’s a piece of advice, nay, wisdom, that metric gave me. it’ll not only add another tactic or whatever to your arsenal, but the process in itself will force you to approach and play the game a little differently, without you even trying to, which is all good to break you out of your rut. again, start small with these things… so many possibilities here… pick one at a time, lest you grow tired. shortcut for the thinking process: watch videos, and pick out some cool things that you want to integrate into your game.


#6

St. lk into Genei jin can be abused online. Offline its not that good so don’t worry about that.

One of the most important things everyone in America needs to work on is fundamentals. There’s only a handful of players in America who have solid fundamentals.

No offense to you or other Remy players, but you miss out on loads of fundamentals when you main a wacky character. Pierrot, for example, uses Ken as his second main.

Watching videos is also very important. Really analyze the matches. Whenever I watch videos of myself or vids from Japan, I always try to figure out why I lost, or why did this person lose. Learn from the matches and study.


#7

Pierrot’s Ken is definitely a weird one. I don’t wanna say it’s weak considering he did manage to break past 10th Dan once, but it’s definitely not as solid as his Remy(which itself is really funky compared to ohhh…Take).

But yeah, self-reflection and videos, including your own, help out a lot. I never had the luxury of having any of my matches recorded(the ones that matter anyway), so I had to just keep playing over and over until I see what I’m doing wrong.


#8

taking a break helps alot. you’d be surprised what a 2-3 week hiatus can do. sometimes after playing for so long, you tend to only see things from one perspective. spend time on a new hobby away from 3s and you’ll come back feeling refreshed and maybe will see things in a new light. this game is as much about perspective as it is game knowledge.

also study the fundamentals of the game. it will take you a long way.

the funny thing is, the concepts and ideas you need to understand are often right in front of your face and when you realize them it’s kind of like "oh shit, that’s it??"
the simplest things can sometimes be overlooked with ease.


#9

break do help. When you get back in it, everything everyone does seems like “old” shenanigans and you have an emotional equilibrium again.but when you get back in, i’d recommend spending a few hours brushing off your execution before hopping into competition again.


#10

pick yun


#11

I’ve heard the first part a lot. The second part here seems sorta odd. You think Remy makes you kind of focus on specific techniques in order to maximize his potential? So people kind of get clouded when trying to learn?

Obviously someone like Pierrot is past that point I think. Or at least that’s what i’ve heard (talking about first hand experience playing him). As to the part about fundamentals. People don’t want to learn the boring stuff really well for whatever reason. I don’t think it’s especially boring but I guess some people do because they skip basics and focus on stuff like red parry or confirms.

however there are a number of us players who have great fundamentals. i think flare is the best in this regard.


#12

I can see where Ryan’s coming from, to be honest. Certain characters in the game rely on strategies and concepts that diverge from fighting game fundamentals or even 3rd Strike fundamentals. Coming from my own personal experience, I managed to develop a lot of my spacing/zoning and footsies from years of playing Hugo, Q and Urien. These three characters shaped my playstyle, which is solid defense and playing to the opponent. Consequently, I wasn’t able to hitconfirm for years until I started to play Chun, Ken, and Dudley seriously when I was in Japan. These characters also helped me learn the concept of aggressive play and when it’s the most appropriate time. Those are HUGE parts of fundamentals that I haven’t learned in the first six years of me playing this game.

There’s a reason why almost everybody and their mothers have Ken as either a main or a secondary: he will teach you every important fundamental thing about 3rd Strike.


#13

I find Ryu to be the best character to learn fundamentals. IMO, ken seems too fast to teach footsies to beginners since they’re less likely to get punished for choosing poor footsy options.Ryu is easier to react to since his moves are slower, so you have to put more care into your footsy options when playing as Ryu. I think ken is better for learning links and execution since he has like a million links.That’s just me though.


#14

Definitely characters teach you to focus on different aspects of the game. That’s why I personally think if you’re having trouble for a bit playing as your main character it can be hugely useful to switch it up. Playing as a totally different character you don’t know well teaches you different aspects of the game in different ways.

Get’s your brain working again.

Yeah I understand what Ryan meant. To be honest though I think less experienced players fall into traps with any character. Urien for instance. People tend to focus on his juggles and aegis setups to the exclusion of much more basic things. Same with Yun. Get stuck in the ‘genei-jin is why I play this character’ mindset.

When you switch to a different character it gets you thinking about setups and situations you don’t often deal with or do with your main. This also goes for playing against a variety. If you always play against the same like 3 characters, you don’t have to focus as much on the basic concepts and situations. You end up focusing on what works against just those characters without trying to even think like that.

edit: not to call you less experienced everdred lol i just realized it might have sounded that way.


#15

yea people do fall into traps with their characters. they see rx and messatsu play urien and just try to copy. Any urien player will learn way more just watching pierre play. same with yun. learning how to be effective outside genei jin is so important and always overlooked. nitto and ochibi are amazing when they dont have geneijin.

to improve, you need to find a group of players who are way better than you and play offline. Then you start learning things you cannot get away with. for example, I was playing this urien player before who always went for terrible punch. I reversal shippu him every time until he stops being careless with it. so many times when i play online, I just try to make people whiff throws and punish. The smart players learn and stop throwing, the dumb ones will eat it 100 times. playing people who can pick you apart is the goal. unfortunately, its extremely difficult to find people.

the thing about fundamentals is you can always improve. unless your on nuki’s level, your fundamentals are weak lol.


#16

Meh there’s loads of different variables which involve plateauing, and onlne is one added variable. Online is a bad place to learn this game because of frameskips and the amount of bad players. Most players online will plateau anyone because they don’t play the game properly. They survive off stupid shit which works well (too well) online and completely for-go intelligent play.

What I tend to do is practice a lot in the training room on execution, setups and then go and play a few games online (no more than 20 rounds) . Go back to practice and then go back online and repeat.


#17

Read everyone’s response just now. I am starting to realize that I’m missing something but I can’t describe what it is. So what I did last night I just stuck with shinku ryu and played anyone who was online way late cus of v day.

I didn’t switch up I just kept going back to ryu. I realize that I end up having to deal with the brunt of stuff that a person can do without having lengthy dashes or projectiles to guard against ppl coming in or running away. Well imma get back on it now. Thanks guys, Keep the advice coming I’m sure this is helping more people than just me :slight_smile:


#18

I always believed in the “see the other perspective” as well. In this case, if I were having trouble with a particular match-up, I’d actually spend time with the character I was having trouble against in order to understand why I was losing, or why the opponent might do a certain thing at a certain point, and as well, understand that character’s zones and ranges. A lot of times, it can actually bring appreciation for a character that you never thought you’d find just by playing the character outright (Denjin Ryu is the first character that comes to mind with this, for me, anyway, as well as Urien).

Remember why you play the game. I feel that that’s the most important aspect of getting past the plateaus that we often set for ourselves. Things become stale and that’s where all those plateaus start to happen. Remember that, at its core, it’s still the game you love to play, and that you should be having fun. Just like everyone else has said, have fun with it. Once it becomes a chore to play, you’re already losing.


#19

Not sure if you indulge much Everdread but be wary of Ranked Matches. They seem to create the illusion that certain randomness and gimmicks are far more useful than they are. Who needs to adapt to a third or fourth level counter strategy when you play that hodgepodge of skill levels and connection strengths, rarely coming up with the same person twice in a row and never having anyone watch you play before facing you? I know the plateau forming dangers first hand from playing long stretches of ranked then going to a match lobby and having this sorta painful wake up period where my brain has to start keeping better track of patterns, adding more variation in movement, paying more attention to spacing, being more patient before acting, etc… :shake: …lol
May not be your issue at all, just figured I’d mention it.


#20

start incorporating strategies you’ve never used before. watch more videos of top level players using your main character and learn their tricks. learn counter-hit setups, cross ups, resets, better hit confirms, mind games. Renic released a great video on Ken recently about corner pressure, it should give you some ideas.
[media=youtube]p4t00a2AySs[/media]

I’m currently tinkering with my Akuma in the lab trying to get resets down. I feel like they are seriously leveling up my Akuma since I am doing twice the damage and twice the stun. I’ve been practicing cr.lp x dash under (cross up) x combo. And I also use Akuma’s BnB into a s.HP xx demon flip. this isn’t safe but I can use it to gauge the opponents reactions and keep up pressure. it allows me to go into many options that I choose (which is what I’m currently working on in the lab) including a tic throw, tic demon flip throw, demon flip sweep, sweep, or a BnB combo which I can also reset with a lp into a SA1 or KKZ if I choose. Hope that helps with some ideas brah :smiley:

EDIT: after reading the responses, I’d say work on your footsies as well. Read this a few times, it improved my game 10 fold. Change won’t come over night tho, keep practicing the things mentioned and you will see yourself vastly superior in a month.
http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702