# Player C

http://www.jimloy.com/puzz/nontran.htm

The idea’s been expressed by more than a few people but here it’s with numbers… like it almost begs to be implemented into some non-turn-based game engine.

XSPR

As a math person, this interests me. However, I’m having trouble drawing a connection as to how this is related to super turbo…

player c that can beat player a, but not player b

heh… sorry, I just had to post that but didn’t have time for much explanation or bother to make it very relevant. It’s not even all that relevant actually. ST doesn’t have perfect balance but it’s comparable to most of the best games in that regard. You often find that groups of players don’t match up to a strict hierarchy in terms of rank.

It is also just nice to know that there could be a system or even a formula that all characters adhere to within a fighting game engine. Or, maybe just a penrose triangle notion, without much practicality.

btw did you notice something about the structure? Their are six sides to each die, but any given side is one of seven possible numbers, not six (zero through six).

I’m even more confused now, because the entire purpose of Efron’s Dice is to rig the system so that the second player wins 2/3 of the time. If anything, this is a counterpicking model as opposed to a balanced model.

Transitive properties hold given that a field has properties of addition and scaler multiplication. However, this isnt the real/complex number system.

Oh yea, do a frequency distribution on the numbers 0-7 and you will see why he added an extra number.

That would be rigged if it were turn-based, like tic-tac-toe or checkers etc. If the dice are applied to the way it’s described on that page, it is turn-based, and a rigged game that “picking your choice of die second” lets you win with better odds. Instead of just using the dice but in a non-turn-based game… just a way to make rock paper scissors a little more complex. Deciding to do an attack in a fighting game might be like deciding on which die to roll, and actually attacking would be the button press/rolling of the dice. I mentioned in my first post non-turn-based game… but anyway, I think it was more interesting than practical, …nothing that hasn’t already been tried already.

Isn’t this already the way a lot of SF2 already plays, as far as the moves interact?

Mid-range Ryu vs. Guile:
Guile’s Sonic Boom < Ryu’s Hurricane Kick < Guile sitting and waiting < Ryu’s fireball < Guile’s Sonic Boom…

Yes, the higher level mental game is definitely there, so I guess I was hoping to apply this but in the end the “Effron’s Dice” might not be so applicable, I just thought it was interesting I guess. Now that you mention those specific examples with Ryu vs. Guile though, I wonder if there have ever been any tables compiled to list the most common/useful ones to know about, but even then it’s very very sensitive to exact distances. eg when guile does sonic boom and ryu fb’s, and guile goes for a backfist, the distance matters because sometimes ryu can get a dp out, but sometimes he’s still recovering from his fb and gets hit.