Playing with AI can get you good?


#1

so I’ve been playing CVS2 for PS2 on the highest difficulty for years.
my question is, is it possible for me to get to the top in tournments by just practicing with the AI?

PS:I played on arcade before and owned people, eventually I would lost to people because I am not used to the stick.


#2

The first time the computer does RC scissor kick into fence painting I’ll say maybe.

Until then, I’ll say you’re not particularly intelligent.


#3

Good is a relative term. Once you own the AI, sure, you’re good in some respect. You could certainly beat down a massive chunk of the casual players out there. But unless you step up your one on one game, beating the AI doesn’t really mean anything. You’d probably get massacred in a tourney.


#4

Playing the AI is good for practicing combos and learning reactionary skills like DPing jump-ins. Other than that no.


#5

it’s good in virtua fighter 4 evo…

but i agree with tantin 100%…

when CPU magneto goes yipes on me, and CPU sentinel goes sanford kelly on me, we’ll talk about using the AI to get you better… until then no

on a side note… i THINK, if the CPU learned what YOU do, and the cpu then used that, you can learn new strategies against yourself, thus being able to self improve your game… if any developers ever read this… you should look into incorporating some kind of actual AI into the game…


#6

in CvS2 i SUCK and i cannot play against the AI on the hardest difficulty. However in 3s the hardest difficulty is like my little brothers level… i dont use that to get better at all. But me and my dad [infinitwar] get together with a couple friends and play 3s, sometimes cvs2 and motw. and lately a lot of tekken… most of the other guys, especialy my dad and our friend sean are better then me so its great practice


#7

Yeah the AI will only help you with learning your combos, your movelist. The AI in a game still isn’t near what playing even a moderate player is like, they don’t do a lot of the stuff you’re going to see people do.

I’ll second the AI in VF4 being rather good, it’s not a person of course, but it’s probably the best I’ve run into.


#8

I have an idea. Why don’t you go to a tournament with your skills and then come back and tell us how well the AI taught you to deal with top players.


#9

AI in fighting games sucks for two (main) reasons.

1: Developers can’t understand how to make an AI react to things like a player, which takes all forms of mindgames out of the equation.

2: They don’t understand how the fack to give CPUs imperfect execution. One of the simplest examples is in SSVS, where Gaira has a throw where the damage is modified by how fast you circle the stick. Myself, i can only get it to take about a quater of the bar. The CPU? It takes 50% of your life EVERY DAMN TIME. Alpha games? Computer counters your heavys with supers perefectly. Developers are afraid to give AI the really high-level tricks, because if you had a CPU that always did these things perfectly. Imagine a player that, given any opportunity for a VC setup always uses it correctly and gets it right 100% of the time. Personally, I can’t see why it’s hard to program in input error, but I’m not a programmer.


#10

AI should be seen as a moving combo dummy. Nothing more, nothing less. You can learn how to dial-in combos without thinking about them, hit confirming, stuff like that but learning how to adapt to your gameplay and counteract it is something all decent fighting games players do and something the AI never does. You’re fighting against a few lines of code, not a human player.

Also AI is programmed before stuff like RC and kara-cancelling is discovered and abused by high-level players, so you don’t learn how to deal with certain tricks and tactics because you’re never exposed to them. CvS2 AI never even does an A-Groove combo! So when Sakura goes apeshit and starts shoshoshoing on your ass, you better think fast on your feet because you won’t get experience in dealing with it from only fighting against AI. Likewise RC electricity in CvS2, Chun’s kara-throw/crouching forward mix-up in 3S, etc etc.

Finally, you can pick up bad habits on stuff that seems to work (wake-up supers) and be discouraged from things that don’t. Tick throws are a good example of the latter - AI tends to reversal after the tick, and while some human players can do that too, the regularity that the AI does it gives a distorted view of how well tick throws can work versus human players. Which again brings me back to my original point - you’re fighting against lines of code, not a human player. Or, to put it another way, you’re fighting against a low level player with perfect execution.


#11

Okay have you ever heard someone say this statement-“I’m good because I can beat the CPU on the highest level!!” :rofl:

Know how we all laugh our pants off at them because we know that screams SCRUB!!!

Okay think about that and what they have said above and you have your answer.


#12

The AI can help you improve some areas of your game as long as your NOT trying to win.
For example, you can practice juggles/combos on a moving, “living” opponent, which unlike training mode, will sometimes block the launcher/1st hit or will get hit by it at different ranges.
With this you can get used to seeing all those different situations and train yourself to act according to them.
But when your really trying to beat the AI you will find yourself doing stuff that will work on it but won’t work on human players, and avoid using stuff the work on human players but won’t work on the AI (like mixing up stuff).

Also AIs like in VF4E and SSF2T teach you combos and teach you how the stuff you are doing can be punished. The AI can teach a noob player to stop abusing HP dragon punches for example because it punishes them with strong combos, or to stop jumping alot becuase it uses anti airs.

Take what good you can from the AI, but don’t develop bad habits.


#13

if can beat ST ai set on level8 on the usa machine(actually the hardest ver.)then you can beat any1. even daigo couldnt do this! :pray:


#14

Playing AI will make you worse because it teaches you bad habits. The more you play the AI, the more these bad habits will become permanently ingrained into the reflexive part of the back of your brain. I’d recommend people to only touch the dummy practice mode if they are playing alone.


#15

You’d get raped. There are so many tournaments around our area, why dont you show up.

I know you’ll get owned.


#16

Playing people is overrated. When I use to play games, I almost always only had training mode and the cpu to play. And ive won more tournments then I can count. You just need the right mindset.


#17

qft

if you cpu train for so long in games, you just get used to things, like stupid patterns they do, or not having to work really hard to rushdown. trust me, it happened to my vampire savior skill.


#18

I agree with stabo. What IS good, however, is watching what the computer does to counter your moves. If you are learning the game, it is good to watch what they do so you can “counter the counter” the next time. Why? Human players also use the same counters in many (not all) games. If you are looking to beat tricky attack patterns, infinte strings,etc. then you need to play with real players. Playing the computer will give you the building blocks or allow you to sharpen your combos.

How do you measure this? Go to a tournament and test yourself. Even casual play at a tournament is pretty good.


#19

I won a CvS2 tournament after playing nothing but the cpu (with the exception of a session against a friend the day before the comp). Playing the cpu teaches you to abuse the shit out of RC’s, lol. Having said that though, no-one in the UK actually plays CvS2 so I’m guessing the level of play was lower than in the comps you will compete in.

There’s no substitute for real competition but you should use the time without comp to really nail your execution ( you can do this playing the cpu) and also watch hella match videos.


#20

not everybody is special like you, clayton D: