please close thread



This is pretty bad in terms of perspective on the character and advice given.

Honda does a lot of single move damage? His whole point is hands conversions being so powerful which is something that was buffed in usf4 with the ex hands buff meaning he’s now even more about long conversions.

Gimmick oki is not strong, it’s risky for medium reward. Why crossup stomp when I can just crossup hp or do an unblockable?

Her footsie buttons are actually very very good, and the fact that you think they are better than cammy’s and not good is nuts. Cammy has amazing footsies.

Her down back is very good because of psycho sting+jump back spiral and the ability to build meter well full screen.

Have you used this move? It’s 5f which is AVERAGE or above average reversal speed. Limited invincibility? The only moves I’ve ever seen stuff it are ex cannonstrike and juri j.hp which both tend to stuff dps. The fact that you can get huge damage off of it and it rarely loses as an AA(even the hp version) makes it quite good. Limited Range? The fact that it can connect off of 3 or 4 normals at times when other dps can’t says a lot.

But yeah I’m done, you pretty much said nothing insightful and gave a bunch of bad info.


I wish I could agree more than once.


I don’t really disagree with anything you’re saying, and its true that Honda has hands conversions, but i don’t think it fair to say that he’s not a high damage per hit type of character. I think its really fair to compare decapre to honda, and i also think its fair to say that she’s more rushdown and combo heavy than than character. After all, people have been asking Mike Ross to switch to Decapre for a reason.

As for pokes and footsies, decapre has added range on her mp and hp buttons, and i don’t think that cammy’s footsies are all that. I’d say cammy has average pokes, and a great walkspeed, which allows her to play footsies well in some matchups. I think decapre has overall better pokes and buttons, hence she’s a bit better in footsie situations.

As for the stinger, while 5 frames is average, i see it as slow. Its probably a matter of perspective. In my mind i see 3f dp as the standard, given ryu. I really don’t think its the best anti-air or reversal, especially since its charge only. I also mention that the move is great for damage, which makes me wonder if you took care to read that part.

Jn any case, i do apreciate feedback, although i’d apreciate it if people could do without agressivity


I read your entire crappy post


man im so happy i didnt read this yesterday


if 3fr is average, then what is fast? that is the fastest any move can start up in the game short of command grab ultras and supers. hondas reversal is 8fr to start up. characters can whiff entire buttons and recover before it starts up, that is what i would call slow. so 5 fr is average.

she has good start up speeds on all buttons, good walk speed, good damage off hard buttons, good conversions leading to good knockdowns or good damage, and good range. i dont really see how its not “all that” really the only hole i am finding is up close AA without charge but luckily she has good dash speed and pretty good focus to get you out of trouble.


also its treading new ground not threading


@Mike Robertson

Thanks for you comment.

My comment was making reference to the fact that i don’t think that Cammy’s footsie buttons are all that, meaning that i don’t think she’s dominant in that aspect of the game but she’s not bad. I think that Decapre’s buttons are better than average, and that there are many matchups where she has a significant advantage in the foostise game, considering the reward she can get off of a hit. I agree with you that the fact that she needs to be charged to have a really reliable anti-air is her most significant footsie issue.

As for the 5f reversal, i definitely see what you mean. I feel like 2f is fast, having a reversal with that speed is a great advantage. Having a 3f/4f reversal is simply average, i don’t think anyone would complain about it, but I don’t think it is necessarily something to brag about. I feel like 5f is starting to be a bit slower, and it can be a noticeably less useful for punishes and so on. 8f is just plain slow. That’s how i would classify fast/good/slow. I feel that a ‘good’ reversal is a boon only a few characters have.

That being said, by the metric of simply comparing the start up of all attacks with startup invincibility, it is accurate to say that 5f average. Perhaps it’s a clearer way of saying it.

I’m trying to stay away from making simply a frame data thread since the resources are already there. So that means that i needed to pick adjectives to describe number values, and obviously that is subjective. My goal is just to make a simple but clear portrait of the character to someone that doesn’t necessarily really know too much about street fighter, so that when they see the character they can follow the action.


Hahaha, that’s pretty funny. I guess i could have tried to sell that off as a pun


having a 3f reversal means you can’t be conventionally safejumped, that is definitely something to brag about and is very very useful.


Well, i guess it’s pretty unanimous then. In the future i’ll refer to 3f as fast and 2f as very fast. 5f will be average. I’ll reserve the word slow for things with more than 6f of startup.


Do you know how many characters have 2f reversals offhand?


Well, chun’s super, ken’s super, and while not invincible geif, hawk and hugo’s command throw. I’m fairly sure that’s it, without looking up frame data. Its a privilege to have one for sure.

I’m not exactly sure of the point of this quiz, given that i’ve already edited the post to correct the adjectives used regarding reversal speed.


a super is not what you would call a reversal move - yes it can be used in certain reversal situations, but typically “reversals” are things like DPs, flash kick, ex headbutt, etc. pretty sure that is why he is going in on you because really there is no such thing as a 2f reversal in this game, let alone hardly any 1 + 2f supers (ryus super is acutally 1fr so is chuns super, also decapres is 2fr)

like honda’s ultra 2 is 1fr startup but i would not call that a “reversal” (evne though its used pretty much only in reversal situations) i would just call it an ultra


I see what you mean. I don’t think its fair to limit the notion of reversal to special moves only. I don’t think that the fact that meter is used changes that the purposes of the move are. For example, just like a super a dp can often be used in a combo for high damage, and they could both be used as reversals as well. Furthermore, if one limits the definition of reversals to specials then would EX spinning bird kick not be a reversal since it uses meter. Its true that it doesn’t use as much resources as a super or an ultra, but it uses some nevertheless. Apart from counters, I don’t think any reversal move is limited to just being a reversal, so i’d definitely stand by the notion that supers and ultra are eligible to be referred to as reversals.

This being said, there’s no doubt that there aren’t many moves that are faster than 2 frames, and I’m comfortable saying that they are very fast as per my previous post.

Thanks for your comment


by your logic, every single special move, ultra, and super in the game is a reversal then. also… ex spinning bird kick is a reversal…


Edited the title because newcomers is spelled with a single m.

Also, Veserius is correct. This breakdown is pretty bad in terms of giving proper advice, I would not recommend this to any beginning player at all.


I’m just saying that the criteria that qualify a move as reversal (either fast or very fast startup and or startup invincibility etc ) shouldn’t be tied to any meter usage, or move type associated to it.

Thanks for the correction. Its too bad that you disapprove of the post, as I said, I’m open to discussing changes if they are pointed out. There’s been a lot of criticism on this thread, which is fine, but i’d really appreciate more concrete information as to why the post, as a whole, isn’t adequate.


And I read your entire crappy post, but at least his tried to add something of value.