Possible SSF4:AE Match Up Changes For & Against Lord Bison

m-bison

#1

Official SSF4:AE Developer’s Blog Changes
**Ryu
**[list][]Ryu gets s.MP special cancelable, I assume it’s the far version. Would be kind of hell in footsie range if it’s going to be able to tag Bison like Ken’s s.MP against scissor kicks outside crouching normal ranges.
[
]s.HK with more frame advantage makes it a little more dangerous to respond to Ryu’s offense up close.
[]Less active frames on c.MK would make footsies against Ryu slightly easier for Bison.
[
]Runaway tatsu is just about gone. Pinning Ryu down ftw.
[/list]

**C.Viper
**[list][*]U2 hit box buff.lol
[/list]

**Balrog/Boxer
**[list][]far s.LP whiffing on croucher is pretty huge for Bison against Balrog.
[
]Headbutts even more easier to punish with Ultra 1 on block/whiff.
[/list]

**Cammy
**[list][]Cannon spike (DP) easier to punish
[
]Regular cannon strikes cannot be instant off ground except EX version. I guess this makes non-meter cammy easier to handle and defend against.
[*]Cammy rush down should still be just as dangerous since her normals are getting buffed big time.
[/list]

**Guy
**[list][*]footsie range buffs for Guy, c.LK faster, s.MP hitbox buff, probably to work as a better poke and hit confirm into combos and mix ups.
[/list]

**Fei Long
**[list][]More frame advantage for some of his normals, fighting Feilong up in footsie range is going to be tricky.
[
]HK CW no more invincibility, so slightly easier to stuff Feilong in general.
[/list]

**Vega/Claw
**[list][]Even better poking against Bison with c.MK.
[
]Cosmic heel nerf on block, easier to punish.
[]U2 getting more start up, so no more free anti-airing haha. Safe jumps all day.
[
]Potential huge combos from Vega if you get caught by ex-roll.
[/list]

**Ken
**[list][]Some normal buffs for him, better footsie against Bison (as if he needed it :x)
[
]LP shoryuken easier to punish on whiff/block
[*]EX-tatsu no longer overheading so Down-back to your heart’s content!
[/list]

**Rufus
**[list][]EX-Messiah does less damage now
[
]U2 no longer gives full hits against anti-airs, so not that unsafe tossing out Devil’s Reverse against a Rufus using U2.
[/list]

**Juri
**[list][]Ton of good buffs for Juri. Faster walk speed, hitbox improvements (no specification)
[
]Easier combo ability
[/list]

**Chun Li
**[list][]Small nerfs to her normals; c.HK stun reduction, s.MP damage reduction
[
]Easier to hit her focus attack
[*]DF+LK nerf, perhaps easier jump ins for Bison but he’s still a floater.
[/list]

**El Fuerte
**[list][]More recovery on his specials, so easier for Bison to punish when they whiff.
[
]he gets a chain cancelable c.LP
[/list]

**Sakura
**[list][*]Overall buff to some of her normals, giving it more canceling into specials
[/list]

**Cody
**[list][]c.LK buff, slightly better footsie for Cody
[
]Knife easier to pick up but I don’t think too many cody will be looking to shank Bison whie having other things to think about.
[/list]

**E.Honda
**[list][]Harder to use LP headbutt as antiair. Hopefully maybe EX version too? :x crosses fingers
[
]U2 hcb,hcb; range increase and 2f faster
[*]Overall damage reduction. No more b.s. counter hits taking off so much.
[/list]

**Gouken
**[list][]Normals improved, Gouken should be a lot more threatening up close. His fireballs are already really good at frame trapping on block.
[
]Lot of other special buffs, hard to gauge how the match up will change up.
[/list]

**Rose
**[list][*]U2 no more invincibility or lowered or halved. No more free pass out on her wakeup. Rush that pussy downnnnnnn
[/list]

**Ibuki
**[list][]Slight buffs to her normals, a little more frame trap options for her.
[
]Kunai damage decrease
[*]
[/list]

**Blanka
**[list][]Small nerf to f+MP
[
]Rolling attack nerf on range and recovery. Blankas going to need to be more careful in using them, very likely still easy Knee Press punish on block. I hope both Knee Press hits on all versions on block :x
[*]EX-electricity faster startup, easy reversals inc
[/list]

**Abel
**[list][]c.HP nerfed, might be a little harder for him to anti-air, but Bison still too floaty
[
]lower tornado throw damage always a plus.
[]Marsaille roll no more hit invincible at the end, so should be easier to poke Abel out even if he cancels it off a normal and you block the first hit.
[
]Both his ultra’s losing 10% damage, so maybe like 30-50 at most. Still good. Breathless losing armor on dash portion, and longer recovery time if they cancel it.
[/list]

**Gen
**[list][]Gets target/chain combos.
[
]Small buffs to normals so perhaps he’ll be a little more formidable up close.
[/list]

**Makoto
**[list][]good normal buffs, more kara-ability. C.HK more effective at anti-airing
[
]EX-Tsugiri/Axe kick can be “TK” like Cammy’s offground EX-Divekick
[]EX-hayate is now armor break and faster startup, regular ones still focusable.
[
]Getting 1000 stamina.
[*]Faster dashes
[/list]


Announced for next week’s blog! 11-28-2010?

**Sagat
**[list][*]Tiger Uppercut damage nerfed.
[/list]

**Dan
**[list][*]
[/list]

**Dudley
**[list][]EX-Ducking is faster.
[
]EX-Short swing blow is faster when it reels in.
[/list]

**Zangief
**[list][]EX-Green Hand is +1f on hit and doesn’t knock down anymore. This is very bad for Bison.
[
]Ultra 2 is maneuverable in air like Bison U2.
[*]Quick lariat (KKK) sucks characters in a little bit.
[/list]


Remaining characters for 12-5-2010 & 12-12-2010 (NOT IN ANY PARTICULAR ORDER)

**Adon
**[list][*]Wake up time changed, probably normalized to about the same range as everybody else in the game. So cross up Psycho Crushers are a go!
[/list]

**Guile
**[list][]4f Air throw, nerfed from 3f. Slight buff for this match up.
[
]Lowered Sonic Hurricane damage.
[/list]

Bison/Dictator
[list][]Standing roundhouse hits for 110 base and 80 on the tip. Trades with this from jumping in should be against Bison’s favor.
[
]Knee Press Nightmare full projectile immune. So I guess this beats out EX-Psycho Crusher from all points since EX-Psycho Crusher is actually a huge torpedo of awesomeness?
[/list]

**Hakan
**[list][*]
[/list]

**Dee jay
**[list][*]
[/list]

**Seth
**[list][]800 stamina 900 stun.
[
]No more stretch arm strong Seth. This match up is going to be recycled.
[/list]

**Dhalsim
**[list][*]
[/list]

**Akuma
**[list][]Ultra 2 will hit crouchers.
[
]MP Shoryuken invincibility frames increased.
[/list]

Loktest Updates – UNOFFICIAL Bison Changes
[list][*]U2 now charge motion, “way more recovery”; B, F, B, F + PPP
[/list]

Loketest Updates – UNOFFICIAL
[list][]Blocked Blanka rolling attack distance HALVED; probably on fierce ball. s.HK after every blocked ball? Why did they even do this… doesn’t make any fucking sense for Blanka.
[
]Zangief’s EX-Banishing Flat does NOT knock down anymore on hit. Apparently in vanilla SF4 loketests, EX didn’t knockdown but left a 50/50 guess and Gief’s would SPD/Ultra.
[]Juri can now combo into fireballs ala Shoto c.MK xx Hadouken
[
]Ryu & Akuma cannot “tiger knee” air Hurricane Kicks to escape; instead they stay in place ala air EX-Hurricane Kick? This means more risk taking on Ryu and Akuma’s part. Dragon punch out, tick throw out, teleport out (time for Akuma to eat some link combos, slide into mix up and baits). Like really pinning and cornering shotos now a reality. Yes!
[
]Hakan got a shit ton of changes/buffs. Seems leaving him untouched will yield a very dangerous and oil stacking Hakan… this will make for a very aggressive army of Hakan’s coming in.
[
]Seth’s jumping fierce possibly removed/halved. This is very very huge for Bison.
[
]Guile’s damage seemingly decreased and sonic boom doesn’t build much or any stock meter? Possible prolonging this match up for Bison, still see no improvement now.
[
]Honda ochio Ultra now HCB,HCB like Guy’s grab Ultra, more dangerous up close now but apparently damage got toned down. I assume his counter hit EX-headbutts are gonna be less severe. Running Honda out of meter for less HP is a good thing for Bison.
[]Cammy has no more instant-Dive kicks from the ground. There goes the facial dive kick granting her +13f on block.
[
]Makoto EX-Hayate now armor breaks. I’m okay with this, as I have been focosing Makoto’s online and I think it’s kinda unfair too since her offense is weird.
[]Dudley has EX-Ducking now, looks like good way to get in on other characters better not so much on Bison. but his j.HK people’s elbow knocks down on air to air. This might end up trading and knocking down ala Cody nj.HP and Juri j.HP.
[
]Ken Ex-tatsu low blockable? I think this means the air one? Not sure. Jab SRK more punishable seemingly for recovery increase and LP SRK anti-air can follow up by EX-Hadou like Ryu.
[]Little less stun from Chun’s sweeps? Or across the board? Interesting change.
[
]Sagat apparently getting back his vanilla s.LK back (single hit), and LK Tiger Knee. Possible return of vanilla tiger knee traps bullshit?
[]Sagat Tiger shot gets more recovery. Refer to my post further down this page to see how punishable and likely it is for fireballs to get hit by Psycho Punisher. If it is along the realm of Ryu/Akuma fireball, I’m pretty happy with this.
[
]Sagat Tiger uppercut damage in crease. It was 180 in vanilla for HP TU, right now it’s like 100, 160 with scar. I don’t see them bumping it back up to 160 base, probably should expect 120-140 base for HP TU.
[]Rose’s Ultra 2 losing invincibility. No free pressure out of the blue, but possibly able to trade and break one or both orbs on contact if she loses invincibility frames on startup.
[
]Adon’s wake up time changed, Not sure if this will be slower/normalized or quicker. Currently he can’t be hit by LK Knee Press knockdown into HP Psycho Crusher crossup, all of them hit Adon from the front, which means gets up a lot quicker than everybody else.
[]El Fuerte Ultra 2 nerfed. Probably the damage. Way to go, keep a life lead above 50% over El Fuerte or risk losing it all in an instant.
[
]T.hawk gets Ex-Condor dive on back jumps, so no more free roundhouses when he has meter. :frowning:
[]Gouken LP Rush Punsh no longer advances forward. Looks like more anti air options. The hit box is good.
[
]Guy’s slides buffed. db+HK? or Command dash slide?
[]Balrog/Boxer’s Dirty bull now HCB,HCB motions, easier to do. I still think it’s ass and Ultra 1 all the way.
[
]Cody gets faster walk speed, EX-Bingo range gets reduced? Hmm.
[]Guy U2 distance perhaps increased. Might be able to grab pokes? Or punish Bison’s frame disadvantage with more ease.
[
]Feilong can cancel c.MK into Rekka. Looks like he’ll have better chip damage and pressure faster.
[*]More to come…
[/list]


#2

Might be a little early for this but, whatever.

s.hk on blanka ball block sounds so fraaaay


#3

According to Azrael -

**Bison:
U2 now charge motion, way more recovery
**
BULLSHIT


#4

I’m switching mains if it’s just charge motion and nothing else.

If they made Psycho Punisher a charge motion, the start up NEEDS to be cut down drastically to balance it.

If it’s a charge like Nightmare Booster, then it’s still usable under some circumstances. If it’s Guile Flash kick super motion, I’m done with Bison’s Ultra 2.


#5

fucking BS. charge characters get shafted by the FADC system as is, the least they could do is give us a QCF ultra. the damage and startup on it balanced out the inputs, there was no need to pull this.


#6

U2 as a charge move with its current startup time pretty much kills it.

Most of these so called changes though border on retarded…to the point I am doubting it is really gonna happen like this.


#7

It’s a loketest, they’re pretty much beta testing and giving/getting feedback from the players too I think.

I hope some of these things get pulled out.

Still, if Psycho Punisher is now a charge move, it better have a stupid fast start up to balance it.


#8

After seeing U2 being switched to charge and cammy can no longer TK cannon strike… I’m pretty sure the list is fake

U2 is worthless as a charge move and cammy is worthless without tk cannon strike

I’m expecting a nerf on chun U2 if they continue this sort of path


#9

Reduced damage for honda and guile sounds great. Especially Guile. Bison can take less damage getting in and start his mixup game up close.

Also Sonic Boom doesn’t build meter? Cool, no more safe FADC flashkicks for Guile.


#10

how can they nerf the psycho abortion? Maybe capcom making a statement about pro choice being a bad thing. </3


#11

No, this just solidifies Ultra 1 as the jump/close-mid range punisher ultra and Ultra 2 as the ground/mid-long range punisher.

Bison is just going to have to sit back a lot more during match ups and stare down everybody.


#12

Where does it say they removed Cammy instant dive kick? Frak if they did that she becomes pretty much useless.

This makes it more useless than U1, and U1 is already pretty badly useless except in a few matchups. Sitting on down/back all match praying the opponent screws up enough does NOT benefit Bison at all. In short if that goes through as is, Bison might as well not even have an ultra, he can’t combo into either of them outside of a jumping normal that is landed again when someone screws up.


#13

No, just means she doesn’t have the ridiculous advantage against bad reversal characters. She’ll lost some high damage combos from this but I think she’ll do fine.


#14

I think Bison should always have played more footsies but, this is ridiculous.


#15

as upsetting as the (possible) U2 change is, I’m not too worried. This list is flat out retarded. It severely screws over the entire upper echelon of tiers. But it’s just a loctest, so whatever.

But if it really goes through, I’m going back to balrog, again. Him and Chun will be S-tier in no time at this rate.


#16

I’m brainstorming a bit on how this will really work out in the end if this really really goes through to arcade and DLC balance.

First off he’s definitely going to play a little more defensive too, so… I really don’t like that. I rather prefer to go a little more aggressive and surrender the charge for Psycho Punishers off mistakes and throws.

If it’s just charge motion change and nothing else, there’s not a whole lot of setups for Psycho Punisher.
[list][]Fireball punisher/cross up from faraway
[
]j.MP, j.MP Psycho Punisher
[]Anti-air reset into Psycho Punisher crossup
[
]Slide, walk back two steps, Ultra on wakeup and cross up
[/list]

So more on the first and last points, start up frames need to be cut IMO. If they’re cut, they’re more threatening to use against fireball characters. Basically just like Chun Ultra 1 and Honda Ultra 1, except we will probably still be able to control the distance for Psycho Punisher.

I would also like a damage increase on the first hit of Psycho Punisher to be bumped up by 30 points or so.


#17

the problem is you have to be close to punish fireballs on reaction because of air travel time

full screen U2 doesn’t punish fireballs as it is(at least not always) charge would make it even harder.

Because honda and chun go through fireballs and are faster it works just fine.


#18

Right, that’s why they would have to reduce the start up frames so it can punish fireballs on reaction realistically like Chun’s Ultra 1 (6f) or Honda’s Ultra 1 (11f)


#19

U2 a charge move?
thats gotta be bullshit!

why did they mess with it like that?!


#20

Capcom has lost its damn mind:

Blanka=fucked
Cammy=Fucked
Hakan=equals mid tier now(who the fuck plays hakan?)
Ryu/Akuma=can’t run as easy now(i never had that big of a problem with this)
Dictator=two worthless charge ultras

Theres no way this is going to stay, It’ll be different in a month or so hopefully