Potential flaw in the damage scaling system?


#1

[media=youtube]fOGw1WVeQns[/media]

While fooling around with some Chun-Li solo combos in the training room, I discovered something weird. The exact same combo did 56,000 more damage the first time than it did the second under identical circumstances. I managed to capture it (and a few other unrelated things) and throw it up for demonstration. Thoughts?


#2

Chun’s too strong, so they gave her random damage.


#3

THat’s… weird.


#4

Is this training mode only, or can the same thing happen in VS as well? I can’t watch the video right now

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#5

Im betting its how many times she hits with the lightning legs ? canceled or comboed to next move ,Different amount of hits


#6

It’s impossible to tell, but I would assume that it’s not exclusive to training mode.

Watch it again carefully. The first air :h: hit for 70,000 in the first clip and 63,000 in the second clip, despite both being the first attack. I only landed four hits of Hyakuretsukyaku in both combos from hits 15-19, EX Spinning Bird Kick accounts for hits 21-30, with Kikosho finishing from 31-57. Same inputs, same hit count, same circumstance… varying levels of damage. This makes no sense at all, but it happened.


#7

Counter hit set to random (you can do that in training mode right)? The stagger animations look different for both starting air heavies. I would have thought that explains the different damage.


#8

Every hit in the second combo appeared to be scaled for an extra hit as well so somehow the game was counting an extra hit in the damage scaling for the entire combo. In any case, this behavior confirms that the displayed hit counter and the hit counter used to determine damage scaling are different variables so something must have caused the game to write to only one of them which suggests something unusual is going on under the hood here.

My first hypothesis is that this is probably some strange quirk with Chun-Li’s j.:h:. If it makes a stray, non-damaging hitbox, the game may have seen it “hit” and counted that hit in the damage scaling (and maybe hitstun scaling too but this combo may be tight enough that an extra hit wouldn’t let it drop). Of course, since this stray hitbox doesn’t do damage and isn’t flagged right in general (assuming it’s a buggy hitbox that isn’t supposed to be there), it may not write to everything correct it’s supposed to on hit so it doesn’t display a hit. This hypothesis could be proven wrong if circumstances were created that allowed arbitrary other moves to do this.

My second hypothesis and favored one at that is that this may involve the training mode reset feature. Was the second combo actually the first hit of the game (as in the place you were before that was character select), or was it the first hit since you used the button combo to reset training mode? If you do something like restart training mode just as you land a hit, the game may put that hit into the queue for the next combo’s damage scaling (erroneously not clearing it as everything else is cleared). That would be a pretty believable bug as well (and if it requires a frame perfect training mode restart, it would explain why it’s seldom observed) but one that would have no effect on the competitive game.

My third hypothesis is the simplest but also the least likely. This could just be a case of random hardware malfunction. This almost never happens but is possible, and if the bug is impossible to recreate, it may have to be chalked up to this. This sort of thing is really unlikely especially on a modern console, but I figured I should throw it out there.

EDIT: The CH explanation is unlikely given that I don’t think CH damage permeates through all hits of the following combo and furthermore the first combo involves the normal base damage of j.:h: whereas the second combo has reduced damage. It the stagger animations are different, it may be because of a difference in hitstun scaling.


#9

It was after a reset, so your second theory sounds plausible. Even if it does affect real matches, there’s no way to tell because we have no replay feature with attack data to study.

I don’t have counter hits turned on.


#10

Wow thats pretty damn weird. Cant think of any reason why the first hit would be scaled


#11

i was going to say this as well, but both combos are 57 hits.
perplexing >.<

EDIT: does this happen sometimes, or is the damage different every time you do the combo?


#12

I thought I read that training mode has occasional problems with the number values it puts up for total combo damage.

I may be wrong but I really think someone was talking about this. I just can’t remember which thread it was in.


#13

actually… you might have hit the nail on the head.

remember in vanilla when Sentinel got ninja-nerfed, and everyone was scrambling to find out exactly what his new life total was? People were testing it by combo-ing him until he died, then seeing what the total combo damage was on the final hit that killed him. And the results were really varied, some people were getting to 905,000, some 910,000, some 900,083, etc. And all of these tests were based off of training mode values.


#14

It popped up a few times. I haven’t been in the lab since, but I’ll see if I can figure out what’s triggering it.

Still, you can tell by looking at Akuma’s health bar that the second combo did less damage. It wasn’t just displaying wrong numbers. The combo was scaled for an additional hit that never happened.


#15

I remember that Sentinel thing but that seems to be a glitch (the health thing, not the damage scaling)

I just killed Dante and the attack data says my combo only did 898,200. Im guessing it’s a glitch involving magic pixel. As for the damage scaling, I still dont know what to think of that


#16

Check to see if your damage option got changed to low. I was messing around in training mode with Iron Man and the same thing happened to me with combos doing 722 instead of near 800. I noticed that the damage setting would default to low instead of medium.


#17

Honestly if this isn’t just some training mode glitch it would explain why the magic pixel happens so often. I had the dummy on no life recovery and I did a combo on Dr.Doom that did (iirc) 1.02mil and he was still alive. Did the same combo and he died at 1.000.052mil


#18

actually, i remember this happening in vanilla. i would go into training mode and kill phoenix because i like her transformation, and sometimes the damage would be below or higher than her life (420,000). i thought capcom lied about her stamina lol.
the training mode damage was set to medium and all that.


#19

I don’t change the setting. It’s always on medium. I did the combo again after the second recording and its damage was identical to the first.


#20

I don’t change it either. But sometimes, when I default my options, the system changes it from medium to low. Just a thought.