Practical use of Healing

elena

#1

Now, I’m making this post out of ignorance, I’d like to know some info about healing, here’s my take so far, I guess you guys can right what I have wrong.

Elena seems to be more of an EX character, her supers don’t do much damage compared to other supers (SA 1 and 2 obviously) and while it’s easy to combo into her supers it seems better to drop an EX attack. I’ve been trying out SA1 and 2, don’t really see enough of a differance to make a convincing argument for either but what I DON’T get is why healing would EVER be used, much less be used in every high-level match I’ve seen with elena.

Healing heals roughly half the average supers damage… has alot more meter than most supers, the supers with a meter that long would do 3x the damage healing heals. In addition to the low ammount healed, healing has only one meter, so you can’t ex and then use it. Also, from my experience, most characters WILL smack you out of it even if you knock them down. Maybe some of the slower characters can’t… but eh. The resulting combo would most likely take off more than was healed. I’m pretty sure if you just want EX’s SA1 or SA2 would have more available meter.

So… why do people use this in tournaments?


#2

Cuz Elena SA3 + turtle your ass off with b+HK = YOU DA W1NN4R :cool:

Incase you didn’t know, you can cancel healing as well. Just hit 2 punch buttons during the healing to cancel. Hella mix ups with that shit. People just use it cuz it’s fun and when you play it right it works. Elena can still use EX when she needs to with the long bar. With this super your playing style has to become more defensive though. One good kara throw to healing = 30 percent of your life bar back. Doesn’t hurt to get that much health back after one throw.


#3

Well, here’s my take on Elena and SA3:

  1. Elena does not get a lot of chances to use SA1 or SA2. The only move it’s easily cancellable from can be blocked/parried high AND low, meaning there’s absolutely no mind games for it; you simply have to hope your opponent messes up, which you should expect to happen less and less when you play more skilled opponents. You can actually make an opportunity for SA3 with just about any knockdown you score on your opponent.

  2. As you said, the best damage she can usually dish out is with EX attacks; although her EX combos suffer from the similar trouble that SA1 and SA2 have (only easily cancellable from one move), They are safer when blocked, and, most importantly, you can perform her signature combo with the amount of EX that SA3 gives you. While it might seem like a bad idea, consider this:

  • SA3’s bar fills up really fast

  • You don’t get a lot of opportunities to EX combo anyways

  • Doing one or the other goes either way; you deal damage or you gain life back, both of which will help you get in the lead.

  1. It’s my personal belief that Elena won’t be doing the bulk of her damage with Supers OR EX Combos, but rather, it’s her High/Low/KaraThrow game that you can pull after a knockdown. Just peg em’ as many times as you can with your quick sweeps and overheads, throw in some KaraThrows, and try to psyche em’ out sometimes, and as soon as you lose the momentum, pull back and wait for your next opportunity. With this in mind, SA3 is a pretty obvious choice, since it compliments this fighting style, like, perfectly.

#4

Aiight, thanks guys


#5

Not necessarily. Ken’s crouching MP doesn’t hit low either, but it’s not like it’s all that hard for him to hit confirm it. In the pro videos I’ve seen of Elena players, they don’t seem to have all that trouble getting SAII off, and her hit confirmable normal has great range, and seems to stuff a decent number of low pokes.


#6

Yeah…what makes it easier for Ken though is that he also has a low hitting confirmable normal. So the opponent essentially has to fear losing 35 percent of their life bar everytime they’re in a standing position. That on top of the fast as hell c.MP (that’s a cinch to hit confirm) makes it essentially easier for Ken to hit someone with c.MP to begin with. The opponent is more inclined to make mistakes when they have to always be in fear of being hit with a low attack. The worst Elena can do to you is c.LK to kara throw as far as low attacks go. c.LK to SA1/SA2 is pretty much a guessing game and extremely risky for Elena.

So from that point, as an Elena player using SA1/SA2 you just have to have your wits about you and look for obvious mistakes to punish. The nice thing about Elena’s c.MP is that it has insane range and a long time to hit confirm. Even so it’s still easy to block/parry without risk. Which then you have to resort to Elena’s tricky mix ups and other high priority pokes to win matches. It’s not that Elena will never get a chance to use c.MP to super…it’s just the chances are less since her overall pressure game just simply isn’t as scary as Ken’s.


#7

Yeah…Ken has really good ways to go into SA3 from high and low attacks, not just mids. Elena’s only easy hit-confirmable move is a mid attack, which is more of what I was referring to. It is true though, that C.Mp does have pretty damn good priority and range, though. I still think Elena SA3 is the most practical option, cos in my opinion, the best strategy with Elena is to just fluster your opponents. Her good Hi/Low/Throw game combined with SA3, is really good for that kinda shit.


#8

I use Healing. The best route is not to think about it too much. It’s a second round “trump card”.


#9

I use both really. I use healing on character I know ill have a harder time getting close to . Honestly it depends on the character. For example I never use healing against Yun/Yang players but against Q or Hugo players ill use it just because its that much harder for them to deal with. Fast characters I feel its too risky or not worth it cause u cause SA II can get major damage off and the Ex bar is there. SA III however is more strategic to me.


#10

Yeah what characters is picking healing most useful? Oro for sure, he really doesn’t have anything that will quickly get him to Elena’s side that’ll do any damage. A non-SAIII Hugo has little too. Basically anyone without a good low-hitting rushing move/super will have trouble with healing.


#11

The only character I won’t use Healing on is Yun. On him I use Spinning Beat. I never use Brave Dance.


#12

I dunno, I have a lot of success using Healing on Yun…Yun actually isn’t a really hard match for Elena, and it’s especially easy to get Healing off on a Turtling Yun. Yang, ahh not so much, you need to make an opening for that…but Yun usually does it for you, lol.

Also, another reason why I think healing is good…it’s been mentioned before that Healing gives Elena enough to do her staple EX combo. Well, I played a little theory fighter tonight and tested out the damage in training mode, and here’s what I found:

  1. There are of course, three ways to combo into Brave Dance. The most useless version, S.Mp XX Brave Dance, is actually the least damaging way at 55. C.Lk gets 58, and C.Mp gets 62.

  2. Unless there’s an even better combo I don’t know about, her staple combo (C.Mp XX EX Spin Scythe, EX Rhino Horn, Hk Scratch Wheel) will do 55, 58, and 61 damage respectively, depending how how many hits you land on the scratch wheel. Hell, if you do the EX Scratch Wheel, you can bring it up to 65. While I suppose that’s easier, I do the normal one, cos sacrificing about 1/3 of my bar for three damage doesn’t really seem practical to me.

My conclusion: Even though C.Mp XX Brave Dance is probably easier to do, it’s only for one more point of damage. You might be able to do it twice in a fight very quickly, and you might be able to go for the EX more often, but it’s more of a risk to go for Brave Dance if it’s blocked, which is very unsafe when blocked (Granted, a blocked EX Spin Scythe can be dangerous, but not versus most people, and most people will need meter and a dashing type super to punish it). You might be able to go for the EX More often with Brave Dance, but you get meter really fast with Healing anyways, and you have the option to go for the EX or get 1/3 of your life back when you use Healing. For general purpose, I’d say Healing is probably better on most matchups.


#13

Healing FTW!!! :cool:


#14

If I recall correctly (and it’s been awhile, so don’t flame me if I’m wrong), simply doing low medium punch into EX Spin Scythe into (deep?) short Scratch Wheel does 64 points of damage. It may be 60, I’m not sure; but I do remember the reason I do that combo instead of the three EX’s is because in my testing the three EX’s only did one point of damage more than the EX SS into short DP.


#15

The most I could get with that combo is 59, but it’s not like that’s bad or anything, lol. I can see where it would be good to change between throwing in the Rhino horn if you do it midscreen, since if you use the EX Rhino Horn in this combo, it’ll cross your opponent up if you’re not in the corner.


#16

A high level opponent’s defense is hard to break especially when he knows that you’re relying on your brave dance set-up to kill him…

Elena is predictable when she attacks with a jump-in or a dashing attack… it’s quite simple to counter-attack if the opponent is a high level player. With this you have to rely on your great defense + healing + kara-throw + great pokes to win…


#17

Hi everyone! :slight_smile: I’m back to using Elena some more, but I hardly dare to pick her against Ken: DA BITCH. She also takes HUGE damage from Yun when he juggles you to the corner w/ Genei (that might not exactly be a juggle since it can be more than 6 hits in 1 combo involving juggles), because of her huge hit box. I’m surprised you guys don’t find Yun a tougher opponent for her, but I guess I need to use b+hk more :stuck_out_tongue:

I first expected this thread to be about Healing set-ups, but where is that info? I forget what works other than throwing. I think she has some good normals that smack an opponent back enough or to the ground to make a full healing safe? Does it involve a lucky, random st. hp on jumping opponents or some junk?

This topic sure branched out from the healing angle haha :smiley:


#18

I’ll discuss that eventually in the thread I was making about Elena, but to put it shortly, you wanna use Healing:

  1. After any knockdown (the only exception is that you might not wanna use it after sweeps…the exception is in #3 of this list)

  2. Against turtling opponents

  3. To bait your opponent into attacking you - remember, you can use PPP to cancel the animation of Healing. Oddly enough, just about any time you use Healing, it’ll bait the opponent into attacking you, but if you ever want to fluster your opponent for any reason, that makes it a good time to use Healing.


#19

during a win streak i will often switch it up between healing and brave dance for several reasons

  1. to keep my play style constanly changing, when using SA2 they will be watching your c.mp when using healing they will wacth out for your throw
  2. as a safety net in the case you playing someone you are not used too
  3. versatility training
  4. a little bit of showing off, busting out a long juggle with your healing meter can be pretty fulfilling

#20

I still think that Healing does the same (reverse) damage as Brave Dance. I recall reading somewhere that they actually do the same numerical values, and if you hit Elena with Brave Dance from another Elena, then have her use Healing, the damage is about the same. Therefore it could potentially do even more damage when used in the right combo or against certain characters.

Meanwhile, Healing is still absurdly easy to combo.

  • Throw -> Healing
  • MK, down+HP (TC) -> Healing
  • (c.MP), dp+LK -> Healing
  • (c.MP), rdp+LK -> Healing
  • hcf+LK -> Healing
  • qcb+LK, qcb+LK (finisher) -> Healing
  • c.HK -> Healing
  • oc.HK (slide) -> Healing

And it owns Hugo.