Pre-HD consoles on HDTVs


#1

I was wondering if anyone had any insight on this. So I have a decent HDTV (display lag database rates it at 26 ms, which is great for non-competitive gaming), and it works great for anything from PS3 onward. The issue is any older consoles like the SNES or PS2, they have more latency, which I know is because the TV has to deinterlace and upscale the resolution to match the native output.

My question is, is there any way to fix this? I know the obvious answer is to play it on a CRT like a man, but I personally like the crispness of the HDTV, I just didn’t know if there was any equipment I could buy to alleviate the issue.


#2

The thing is, LCDs do have latency compared to CRTs, even factoring out the de-interlacing and upscaling.


#3

You can always buy a Micomsoft XRGB-3 or Framemeister, but I think you’d also have to mod your old consoles for RGB output as well to make the best of it.


#4

Sadly the framemeister adds 2 additional frames… (See Fudoh over Leo Bodnar testings)


#5

That is only the Framemister Mini, the older XRGB 1, 2, 2+ and 3 has no lag.


#6

I thought we’d established the Mini is approx 1 frame? Eh. I still don’t notice during gameplay.

The Framemeister is the way to go. The XRGB 3 and earlier have too many quirks to make them worth it, especially when the Mini is there.


#7

Dude, the memories.

You get a framemeister with RGB. Raw sync when available.

Doesn’t have to be SCART but it is the easiest to get a hold of.


#8

Hah! I figured it was only a matter of time before @Smashbro29 chimed in. :slight_smile:


#9

How so? XRGB2, 2+ and 3 didn’t need “clean” or C-sync, you can get away with composite video as sync (can’t do it on a framemeister) , they have no buffer so zero lag, the 2 and 2 plus only line doubles and converts the signal to 31khz RGB a.k.a. VGA, you can’t save individual profiles for individual games but you really don’t need to. The 2 and 2 Plus does not need a menu translation as the menu is already in English.

The only things you need for cable adapters is the Jap 21 pin connector (Japanese version of scart) and a D-terminal to RCA adapter for Component video.
I Rather have my XRGB 2 Plus over a framemeister. Also on many HDTVs the VGA port bypasses alot of image post processing


#10

Eh. To each their own… :slight_smile:

I was referring to more specifically the issues with a lot of the more ‘offbeat’ systems having trouble. CMVS systems, certain PC Engines, etc. Mainly though, if you’re looking for an upscaler right now, I can’t see any reason to get one that doesn’t have native HDMI output. VGA ports on HDTVs is going the way of the dodo. Here it is in late 2015, and I have zero displays in my home that have VGA or DVI inputs. It’s all HDMI and DP now.

If you really care so much about input lag, better to just buy a CRT and be done with it.


#11

I use a MVS board with a XRGB2+ I have no idea what you are even talking about. My XRGB2+ runs with arcade boards just fine, yes some people have to make some manual adjustments but that isn’t hard.
Just include in your consolization or super gun some video attenuation and you will be fine. A Trim pot and a 200uF on each color line does the job for me.

Yes VGA is phasing out, because its losing in popularity not because its inferior, on a engineering standpoint HDMI standards is badly and horribly flawed POS of a system.
Your displays lacking VGA that on you not me. When it comes to the point I loose a VGA compatible display I rather use a VGA to HDMI adapter with my XRGB2+ then ever touch the framemister.
From a electronic engineering standpoint VGA is superior to HDMI in terms of shielding and not taking interference. VGA can also do almost any resolution HDMI can.

CRT is going the way of the Dodo, not just these displays are no longer being made more and more of these displays are dying and there are fewer and fewer people that knows how to service them.


#12

Why so defensive? I didn’t knock your preference for the older models, and I never said VGA was ‘inferior’ or whatever. Yeesh.

I’m just going to slowly back away now…


#13

I could say the same about you. I not getting defensive, but if I see something off I am going to call on it (even if I am actually wrong).

The Framemister mini is the only device in the XRGB series that is HDMI instead of VGA.
So when you say " have too many quirks to make them worth it" and " VGA ports on HDTVs is going the way of the dodo. Here it is in late 2015" it really implies that VGA is inferior.
Its really the manufacturers and not the customers that pushing to phase VGA out, as VGA you can’t encrypt the video signal, HDMI has this ugly little thing called HDCP which allows for the signal to get encrypted and take up bandwidth that should be used just for the video feed.

The one thing the Framemister does better is how it handles 480i signals (as well as actually supporting HD resolutions) The older devices just line doubles 240p especially the 1, 2 and 2 plus and it is a pass though for 480p. For 480i older units tries to handle the format like 240p, it line doubles each field, so sometimes you get this jittering and combing effects which can be compensated for but still.

The following

I feel that is dead wrong, every console has its quirks and issues. Also the PC Engine does not even provide RGB stock, If a Super gun or CMVS is having issues that is more of there noise on the sync line which isn’t hard to clean up or you just need some attenuation on the color lines. Some arcade boards including Neo Geo boards are out of spec for NTSC RGB video as they don’t always give out 60 hz (60 fps) video, many are often 55 hz or even 59 hz, and the issue is not the device but the display does not like this out of spec refresh rate. It’s mostly newer less capable HDTV displays. The older XRGB devices is passive in this regard and just pass on the out of spec video refresh rate.

I do know that the Framemister does not like composite video as sync and you need C-sync or a sync cleaner for all your inputs, most Euro scart compatible adapters for the Framemister mini has a sync cleaner or have the option for a sync cleaner.

When it all said and done the Framemister Mini is the most recommended XRGB upscaller but no way the older models aren’t worth wild.


#14

Come on guys, we’re all friends here!

All of its really pretty!

Go Team 240p!


#15

I agree with you Smashbro. But, honestly, I hadn’t posted on these forums in over a year, and the one time I do, I apparently ruffled Darksakul. Whatever. He saw drama and confrontation where there was none. If it makes him feel better to think he has to hyper explain everything to me, that’s fine. Typical forum nonsense.


#16

this is the biggest reason i jailbroke my ps3…just to play the games on an hd tv with no problems. i’d still rather play on the original systems as i already own the games and have saves and all of that on them. thanks for the tips.


#17

This you tube channel has a whole video series dedicated to RGB video and even one just on the Framemister
https://www.youtube.com/user/mylifeingaming/videos

They have videos on various consoles and what you got to do


#18

Make up with him man, it’s not worth it. Be friends, my tech talk fanfiction demands it.


#19

My Fanfic better read like Cupcakes

[details=Spoiler]
THIS IS A DISTURBING FAN FIC, NSFW
http://creepypasta.wikia.com/wiki/Cupcakes/Original[/details]


#20

We hugged it out. There were manly tears.

Great: now it’s going to be Tech Talk slash fic…