Looking for a decent Vega to play against, I’m having more trouble than I should against him due to unfamiliar match up.
The plan: we play some matches, exchange tips and voila! Level up.
I’m from West Coast Canada so west coast US/CA only please, Alberta would be fine too.
Looking for a decent Vega to play against, I’m having more trouble than I should against him due to unfamiliar match up.
i’m assuming you’re uno_ken?
i’m in the San Fran bay area so we should have a decent connection… gimmie about 5 min or so.
I’m from the East Coast so that wouldn’t work too well xD. Inv me if you guys want just to give our connections a test…if it fails I’ll leave the match and let you guys handle business.
kk hopping on now
My PSN ID is BonafydeSkillz
Send VegaMan_ a message
makes it easier
Dude…you’re on my friends list . I forgot. Just inv me when you guys get started
Yep that’s me.
I won’t be going on until tomorrow but feel free to add me now.
i got school tomorrow night so hit me up during the day
GGs to Vegaman (not really, but I’m just being a good sport), your Vega is pretty much what I’m looking for. Unfortunately I was playing like ass, had 2 hours of sleep and couldn’t react to a single jump in + dropping combos everywhere. Hopefully we can get some better games in next time when I’m not out of it.
yeah neither you nor anti adjusted to me when i adjusted to you. so because of that i kept getting hits… the jump ins didnt really do too much damage (although if i had expected them to hit i would have prepared my combo accordingly and made it damaging). the main thing is that you almost always tried to go for lunge punch to get in. you very rarely dive kicked and because of that i stopped worrying for dive kicks and just tried to focus on countering your lunge punches. if you had seen that you could have taken advantage of that fact and almost dive kicked in on free on me. From what i remember you didnt even really try dive kicking at all unless you were right up on me, and even then it wasnt fully safe…
the other guy just ended up getting way too predictable. it worked the first match and a half but by then, he had established that he was going to jump in every single wakeup, and to start almost any blockstring/combo. if we had done 1 more match and he didnt adjust 15 sec into the round i would have started air throwing the hell out of him.
all in all they were still good games. decent connection with you. borderline tolerable with him. If you have an xbox you can hit up Jozhear. he’s Canada’s best vega. if not you can still hit me up
My Yun is still definitely a work in progress, still trying to find the fine balance between dive kicking too much and not enough. I was playing like a total moron though, the one thing I noticed was your slides caught me way more than it should have. I also thought I could have abused the shoulder more than I could have.
As for the match up, I remember you sending me a text saying that it’s 8-2 in Yun’s favor. I gotta say that is way exaggerated, this is more like 6-4. I don’t think SF4 has any match ups worse than 7-3, and even those are semi impossible match ups (eg: Dhalsim-Ryu)
Here’s why I say it’s 8-2 (not an “official” number… where ever those come from)
Yun completely and totally rapes Vega up close. He has so many ways to open you up that even against someone pretty damn solid at blocking like me, it doesnt matter. He has the command grab, the fake palm, regular throw, dive kick, target combos, lunge punch, shoulder… i mean at any given instant you literally have to guess between blocking, jumping, backdashing, or pressing a button. Akuma’s vortex is easier to deal with because Block at least beats 4 out of 5 options. against yun that’s nowhere near the case.
1 combo from anywhere near mid screen puts you into the corner. As a vega player i’m pretty comfy in the corner. I’ll have no reservations about backing into a corner if need be because i’m ALWAYS in the corner. But against Yun, because he has so many ways to get in and so many ways to open you up it’s all just a lucky guess
Vega realistically only has 4 decent options to keep yun out… and that’s only against dive kicks and only at certain angles.
-U2 (risky because of slow startup so you practically have to know that a dive kick is coming)
-cHP (only works against mid range and further dive kicks)
-sHK (only works against mid to semi close range dive kicks)
-sMP (only works against close dive kicks)
sMP is the only safe option so it’s a really big risk to use the other moves, which means that 1 wrong guess/input/timing and Yun gets to start his march to the corner if he aint there already.
1 mistake can easily cost vega the entire round. it’s not touch of death…but it’s about the closest thing there is in this game that realistically happens during actual matches. me as vega, I have to either get lucky or you just have to really mess up in order for me to mount any form of a comeback.
Speaking of comebacks… Vega has virtually zero offense… I shit you not you can just sit on down back all day crouch teching and there aint shit he can do other than a few shananigans to get you to press a button. even then you take what…? 250 damage if unlucky? unless i have ultra that’s about the extent of what i can do off a no charge punish. or you could end up eating an overhead…
like i said in the message i sent you. the only way vega wins is if he keeps yun out. the average online scrub Yun isnt going to be much of a threat. but any decent yun that plays solid and doesnt take unnessessary risks, that’s 8-2 matchup… easily. even without super. Vega has to keep Yun out without the effective tools to do so.
Yes you can negate some of those risks by effectively reading your opponent, but if your opponent is near or on the same level as you… it’s way too easy for them to put the lockdown on vega.
Vega just does not have the tools to deal in any way with yun or yang for that matter… although i’d say yang is 7-3.
elaborating more on the match… as far as you i really didnt have to worry about you dive kicking in at all. you were focused on doing the lunge to get in, so all i had to do was just sit back and wait for that. i failed at actually punishing the damn thing but that was all i had to read. any time you tried dive kicking in you were above the knee most of the time so i knew it was unsafe anyway.
Though most of the points you raise are (somewhat) valid, 8-2 is overreacting.
Its a solid 7-3 at most. and one of the hardest 6-4 at least.
Dhalsim vs Yun is way more unfair and i would doubt that being 8-2.
8-2 is almost unwinnable, smart vega’s who make little mistakes can still win this match a few times per set…its just that its much much more easy for the yun player. But that discribes over 25 of yun’s match ups.
Match up chart is just a way of saying you have to take risks.
So if a match is 7-3 (example Guile vs. Bison in Super) Bison had to take most if not all the risks in the match up.
I feel the same way with Yun vs Vega we just don’t have any options that Yun can’t cleanly stuff out, we have to take ALL the risks in the match while Yun can just apply pressure and throw in a command grab, normal throw, and fake palm (to bait out our risk and punish heavily for it).
I think this is a solid 7-3 match up, while Yang is 6-4.
Against a smart Yun player… it pretty much is unwinnable. like it doesnt even boil down to your skill meaning anything at that point. Smart Yuns are going to get in. If a Smart Yun gets in it’s sheer luck or the Yun fucking up doing something unsafe or dumb if Vega comes out of the corner alive.
I played around with Julio at NCR after we both got eliminated, just to see how bad the matchup is against someone good. The only reason I got a round off the guy was because he didnt expect me to be as aggressive as i was. After that, out of i think 5 matches i didnt get another round till the last match when i was beginning to read his patterns. He won all 5 matches tho.
then again… this is just why I say it’s 8-2… it doesnt make it anything official or mean that anyone else can see it the same way. For it to be 7-3 to me though… It’d have to be something like akuma, where you actually have a decent shot at guessing correctly.
I agree, Yun rapes Vega on a Chun-Li type level. He has minimum answers for Yuns violent rushdown.
Those are very vague reasoning, the same applies for a lot of other characters besides Vega, if anything all that it proved is that it is more like 6-4. None of the points you stated tilts the match up to a 8-2 stand point. Just remember, nothing worse than 7-3 exists in SF4.
If this is 8-2, where does that put Yun-Dhalsim? People’s opinions are more often than not biased towards their own character.
I agree. So, Vegaman, do you really think EX ST with I-Frames would not increase our chances tenfold in this match? Even if we had st.HK and cr.HP fixed, I don’t think either move would be “quick” enough to deal with Yun, if you get my meaning. I know st.HK is 4F, but I still see it getting beat or stuffed even if its HB was fixed.
I-Frame EX ST would keep my blood pressure down during this match, among many others. I am surprised you’re not in favour of I-Frames on EX ST( this is the impression i’ve gotten, sorry if I’m mistaken) when it would clearly serve well in some desperate situations. Shit, even if it does kinda suck like flash kick, I’d be happy to have for its deterrent factor; we’d see a lot less pressure on wake-up and jump in abuse if we had it.
it would… a minor increase but still an increase, because then we’d have an answer to low dive kicks not done safely on wakeup. Honestly i’m a supporter of i-frames on ST, but it’s still even with i-frames, limited on its uses. cHP and sHK (i prefer a 3 frame sHK with increased hitbox size more than anything honestly, cause i can already think of quite a few combos i can stick that into). sHK would still get beat by dive kicks done so high that they are unsafe on block, but the low ones would lose out, and it’s the low ones that make him dangerous. The problem with HK even as it is isnt the startup. it’s the recovery. i’d have to look it up but off the top of my head i think he’s open for like 10 frames on a whiff. the wakeup pressure will still be there, though. almost no one decent left doesnt safe jump in on wakeup anymore so it’s virtually useless on wakeup anyway, and even if it’s not, unless it’s comboable into U1 or U2 the risk really isnt even worth the reward and it’s even less if it costs meter. on non-wakeup jump ins though and for setting up tech traps it’d be really useful.
uno, i dunno the sim-yun matchup to be able to tell you how easy or hard it is. I can only speculate based off my own experience against fchamp here in NorCal that sim has an easier time against yun than vega has against yun, because he at least has an answer to dive kicks and has the ability to control space across almost the entire screen, Like Vega, if Yun gets in on sim it’s over probably just as fast. I dunno how effective U1 is against Yun but vega doesnt have any get off me tools.
i honestly don’t know because i don’t play sim at all. I can ask Ryan next time i see him in sept. But when winning is dependant on sheer luck or your opponent doing something stupid as opposed to how skillful you play, simply because you have no safe option to do ANYTHING, it’s almost unwinnable. That’s why i say it’s 8-3. Vega absolutely HAS to have space in front of him to have a realistic shot at keeping yun out. When 1 single missed block, 1 errant button press, 1 wrong guess on choosing to block and getting command thrown leads to both a knockdown and carried into the corner with only high risk low reward choices at your disposal, and almost rediculous amount of meter gain for my opponent, ends up being the price you pay for it… yeah… that’s 8-3. i almost refuse to even play Yuns at tournaments anymore after going against Julio. I definately wont touch a money match against one.
but that’s just my opinion. there’s nothing you or anyone else can say to change that. it’s based off my own matches, so in order for that to change i would have to see that become easier in my own matches. it doesnt matter how the yun matchup is with other characters because i don’t play those other characters and Vega doesnt have the same tools most other characters have to have a decent shot and dealing with his options.
He doesnt have a decent reversal
He doesnt have a decent Anti Air
He doesnt have high damage combos (at least ones that can be led into by a cLP or cLK)
He doesnt have a command grab
His fastest move is 4 frames and 3 of those 4, 4 frame moves, are unsafe on block