Psychic kongoshin!

gouken

#1

This discussion will be focused on your input regarding which characters are more prone to using high or low attacks to mixup after a knockdown, or after certain situations, where a standing , crouching mixup mind game is likely.

Its very unscientific of course, a list of who tends to do what more often might help us , by having it catalogued. I think a good amount of input should cover all characters , and give us alot of data to discuss. I’m sure we should get alot of good info:

Gouken - we all play him differently and treat knockdown differently, that’s what makes him dope…

I feel other characters have fewer options than others but still pull off good mixups with say empty jump>Cr.lk vs other characters who may dash in and overhead. Seeing who goes with what more often will really help out the kongo game for us all.

I’m bad with organizing and shit here , so maybe some of you can help creating a list here:


#2

Good!!! I’m in


#3

We can just list like this

Char name:
mid-screeen hard & soft knockdown:(what setups used most often , based off your own fights, and from observing any footage from anywhere …evo majors etc)
in-corner hard & soft knockdown:(what setups used most often ,based off your own fights, and from observing any footage from anywhere …evo majors etc)


#4

It will also be very beneficial to look at what attacks need to be lp Kongo vs mp Kongo grounded.

For example vs cammy lp and mp Kongo both beat her cr lp, same thing with many of Rose attacks. I believe the same situation with Ryus cr lp… But Kens cr lp needs to be mp kongo’ed.

So maybe a spreadsheet something that covers that, with tabs for each character for special notes if need be.

Once it’s identified which normals/specials cn be kongo’ed with which Kongo, it will be easier to pick apart the likely block strings and set ups.

The other part to figuring this out is knowning what true block strings are vs the frame traps that have gaps. I don’t think Sagat has chains, so he shouldn’t be able to chain jab and lock you down like Gouken can with cr. Lp, or how most characters can with chain attacks.

But any frame trap you can Kongo in between, so you’d list frame trap and highlight Kongo opportunity between (bc you know which Kongo to use).

And don’t forget cr tech/kongo OS.

I remember attempting this back in Super and got very little support with going through the cast to figure it all out, as it is going to be a lot of work.

Was really disappointed with how many views the thread got but no one really wanted to help put the shit together so I just kept it to myself (amongst other things now).

I think Six 6 had a similar spreadsheet but it never caught wind bc it was around the same time Gootecks posted his Google docs spreadsheet so it was overlooked, even though it was leaps and bounds better from a technical stand point, organization, and details.

Just my little change in the bucket.

I’m always down to help the cause though, even though the vultures are just circling above to just data scavenge and dip. Lol


#5

Do you have any idea of that other spread sheet? I haven’t seen it.


#6

Check your inbox.


#7

I’m not really clear about the purpose of this thread. Is it to match the best kongo to use against each character? Best situation to use kongo?
A chart with who, when, where, why columns might work.

something like

Abel–early in strings–mp kongo–counter step kick, most of his strings that do anything are mid level…

Also, the name of this thread is misspelled. Kongoshin, not Kongsohin.


#8

Yeah i think that’s the idea


#9

I love it , all great ideas…

I started with the first 17 characters from the left… ended w fuerte…wanted to start w basic kongo info like which kongos cover what cr normals. I will begin there


#10

If you are doing spreadsheet, see if you can just grab the frame data and just export/copy them to excel. Then you can just Alter or create a Kongo column where you can put mid-low.


#11

I think this is a great idea and can be very helpful. I believe there was an instance where a my MP kongo wouldnt activate of a grounded normal cuase it hit too high. I cant remember which character that happened with, but it would be nice to know and if there are any other grounded normals that need a high kongo rather than M.


#12

If 4 or 5 people would help you could split the duties. 11 characters each or so. Just copy the excel data from wiki.


#13

I started w crouching normals vs lp or mp kongo’s, 17 characters so far; will move to standing normals vs mp or hp kongo.

doing this finally , is engraining into my head some kongo common sense I hadnt made mental notes of yet…

theres going to be about 4 archetypes for kongo in cr normals scenarios, and standing normals scenarios…some characters can have lp kongo beat all their crouching normals, others lp kongo beats about 4 or 5 crouching normals…standing normals vs mp and hp kongo should be interesti g as well


#14

yo arc- i am doing the groundwork and yea I cant see doing a complete list without the basic elements first( st and cr normals vs lp and mp kongo)best place to find frame traps all chars listed? any other suggestions?

almost all characters (except gen) lp mp kongo vs cr normals- of those half of them are including standing normals…

martinez- go do gen pls, i got a headache at that point- both stances cr normals vs lp and mp kongo, and stand normals vs lp and mp kongo…por fave thx jefe

re: hp and mp kongo- only found a handfull of normals that will activate both mp and hp kongo’s, of course bison far hk snd others


#15

specials all chararcters, ultras, supers…next on the ol to do list


#16

idk but in a spreadsheet the info gets real discombobulated theres 6 normals w either far , close and or crouching thats about 36 per character if im not mistaken then command normals and specials…maybe listing by character per page could be easier for reference for example elena looks like this:

elena-
lp kongo: fwd.mk, cr lk, cr mk, cr lp, cr mp, cr hp
mp kongo: st mk, st hk, fwd.mp, st lp, st mp, f.mk

then you get a sagat lookin like:

sagat-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, far lk
mp kongo: cr mk, all cr punches, all stand normals

then you get ken with:

ken-
lp kongo: all cr kicks
mp kongo: all cr punches

thats not including specials ultras and supers

so although i would like a spreadsheet I just think its alot of columns and puts the info in long rows…but im open for suggestions, an excel wiz with an interest in this would be cool, ccuz id love to see it all in one table LOL


#17

Why not just make a post per character with one line for low kongo and one line for med kongo?
Just like you did it but separated by posts. I’d be more than happy to help but you need to give me direction. I’m not going to spend hours figuring something out and find out afterwards that I wasted my time.


#18

word…


#19

realized im missing akuma, gen I already knew was not done…then halfway thru decided to add standing normals vs mp and lo kongo also. since hp kongo doesnt have much “mystery” in the standing kongo secenarios here , it will be the focus of the jumping meatoes and non meaties part of the project…

did crouching normals vs mid and lo kongo and half of cast standing…and here is what i had so far…

PSYCHIC KONGO…READ AND REINFORCE YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF GOUKENS COUNTER GAME WITH THE INFO BELOW

EL FUERTE-
lp kongo: all cr kicks
mp kongo: all cr punches

DECAPRE-
lp kongo: all cr punches and cr kicks( except cr hp)
mp kongo: all cr punches

YUN-
lp kongo: all cr kicks
mp kongo: all cr punches

RYU & E RYU-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, cr mp
mp kongo: all cr punches

JURI-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, cr lp
mp kongo: all cr punches

GUILE-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, cr lp
mp kongo: all cr punches

BLANKA-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, cr lp , cr hp
mp kongo: cr mp, cr hp

CHUN LI-
lp kongo: all cr punches, all cr kicks
mp kongo: cr hk, cr lp, cr hp

KEN-
lp kongo: all cr kicks
mp kongo: all cr punches

E HONDA-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, cr lp , cr hp
mp kongo: cr mp, cr lp

DHALSIM-
lp kongo: all cr punches, all cr kicks
mp kongo: all cr punches

ZANGIEF-
lp kongo: all cr kicks
mp kongo: cr mk, all cr punches

IBUKI-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, cr lp
mp kongo: all cr punches

ABEL-
lp kongo: cr lk, cr hk
mp kongo: cr mk, all cr punches

RUFUS-
lp kongo: all cr kicks
mp kongo: all cr punches

VIPER-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, all cr punches
mp kongo: all cr punches

HUGO-
lp kongo: cr lk, cr mk, cl lk
mp kongo: all stand normals

ROLENTO-
lp kongo: f.mk,far hp,cl mp , all cr normals
mp kongo: f.mk, all stand normals

ONI-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, back lk
mp kongo: all st.lp, all st.mp, all st hp, all standing kicks

SAKURA-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, cr lp , cr mp, cl st.lk
mp kongo: st.lp,mp,hp,cr hp,mk, hk

HAKAN-
lp kongo: all cr normals, st lk, st mk
mp kongo:cr lp, cr mp, st lp, st mp, st hp, st mk, st hk

YANG-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, cr lp, st lk
mp kongo: cr lp , cr hp, st mk, st hk, st lp, st mp, st hp

ROSE-
lp kongo: cr lp, cr mp, cr lk, cr mk, cr hk
mp kongo: all stand normals

GUY-
lp kongo: all cr kicks
mp kongo: all cr punches, all normals

DAN-
lp kongo:far lk, all cr kicks
mp kongo: all stand cl normals

CODY-
lp kongo: cr kicks all, cr lp, cr hp
mp kongo: all st normals

HAWK-
lp kongo: all cr kicks
mp kongo: all stand normals, all cr punches

ADON-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, cr lp, cr mp
mp kongo: all st normals, all cr punches

CAMMY-
lp kongo: cr lp, cr mp, all cr kicks
mp kongo: all stand normals, cr hp

FEI LONG-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, st lk, cr mp, cr hp
mp kongo: all cr punches, st mk, st hk

BALROG-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, st mp
mp kongo: all stand normals

SAGAT-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, far lk
mp kongo: cr mk, all cr punches, all stand normals

VEGA-
lp kongo: all cr kicks,
mp kongo: all cr punches, all stand normals

SETH-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, far st hp, st lk
mp kongo: st mk, st hk, st mp, cl st lk, cl hp

DUDLEY-
lp kongo: all cr kicks
mp kongo: all cr punches, all stand normals

BISON-
lp kongo: all cr kicks
mp kongo: all st punches, all cr punches, st lk, st mk, cl st hk
hp kongo: far st hk

POISON-
lp kongo: all cr kicks, far cr mp, cr hp, st lk
mp kongo: st lp, st mp, st hp, st mk, st hk
hp kongo: fwd.mp???( forgot if it was far or fwd+mp)

ELENA-
lp kongo: f.mk, cr lk, cr mk, cr lp, cr mp, cr hp
mp kongo: st mk, st hk, f.mp, st lp, st mp, f.mk

GEN-
lp kongo:
mp kongo:

AKUMA-
lp kongo:
mp kongo:

still needs cmd normals, specials, supers, ultras but the tedious shit for the most part is done…


#20

anyone wants to add- do so ill copy and paste to the above list