Punishing shoto's who spam jab shoryuken all day


#1

How do i punish shoto’s who spam jab srk all day? I’m mostly referring to non-fireball characters, seeing as I play Blanka, Bison, and Vega the most. Plus, I assume fireball shenangins with the rest of the cast keeps the spammers at bay.

I swear I time my sweeps just right, after the nth jab srk, only to get hit out of them with another srk. I know there has to be SOME frames after the srk where they’re vulnerable, but its really hit or miss (mostly miss) when i try punishing these guys with non-fireball characters (HP Blanka roll, st.HK with Bison, cr.HK with Vega, etc. All of these moves get hit by the follow-up srk).

The shoto I have the biggest problem with spamming is ken, who sometimes makes me believe spamming jab srk in invincible. I’m strongly considering just jumping away until their fingers/brains get tired of repeated inputs of jab srk as the only way to reliably “stop” shoto’s from spamming.

Tips?


#2

This problem is usually specific to Ken because his jab Shoryuken has only THREE recovery frames when it lands…as opposed to five for Ryu and Akuma.

So, from reading the Ken thread, since online hiccups make it hard to catch him when he lands, the best advice I’ve seen is to hit him before he lands.

GGPO and close thread.


#3

Believe me, I’ve asked this a few different times and people will say that you can beat it out with whatever “higher priority” move your specific character has (as Ken descends). Others will tell you, wait for the opponent to do their “second dp” and then punish.

That’s not going to work when the guy is going to randomly just spam dp x2, dp x3, dp x5. With the added benefit of being online, the jab dp becomes invincible if they are going to spam the move and use it as their own personal shield. Timing is too strict against Ken’s dp when you’re playing online.

Want to know how to beat it? Quit out of that game. Seriously. There’s more fun playing against the computer than someone who is just going to do that against you.

(agreeing with FreshOJ)


#4

Ok…really…you shouldn’t have posted in a thread that’s already dead.

Quit?! That’s your best advice? Please. Like I said before, if you can’t properly time your attacks so that you catch him when he lands from the jab Shoryuken, then just hit the man out of the air. Take the damage you can get and move on.

That wasn’t a good post, minty. Let this thread die like it’s supposed to.


#5

Hit him with what and with whom?

I guess I could look through the 20 pgs of each character thread and post what I find (which I’ve done and I either don’t find anything or the advice is just x_move beats jab shoryuken which I try and doesn’t work). Or I can also go in the ken thread and ask people how I beat their own character, (rofl).

I’ll start writing what I have seen so far and from experience:

(How to punish Ken’s who spam jab srk all day)

Vega:
cr.HK, (realiability=mid)
st.mk, cr.mp (reliability=low)

Bison:
st.HK, (reliability=mid)

Blanka:
??

E.honda:
??

Hawk:
??

Zangief:
??

Balrog:
??

Cammy:
??

Fei Long:
??


#6

This is not that complicated. You’re hitting a vulnerable and otherwise helpless character out of the air. What do you normally hit people out of the air with? The answer is…hit them with the most damaging and reliable move you have…especially if it knocks down and especially if it starts a juggle.

Now…apply that to whoever you play and find what applies to your situation. This is a basic skill that can be figured out by simply playing the game.

Or…you could go to the Ken thread and ask, “What moves should I look out for if I whiff a jab Shoryuken?”

You have to be creative. You have to know how to explore possibilities. It’s a skill that will take you far in fighting games.

By the way, learning the character that’s beating you with a particular tactic is a viable way of discovering its weakness, too. You may not be able to implement the tactic at the same level, but if you’re playing good players, they’ll often show you exactly what you should be trying.


#7

I definitely recommend you try to hit him before he lands.

I main Chun and what I do is I space. They do a dp or even a shoto low sweep, I can space so that it whiffs, then walk up to them and throw before they can do anything else. Chun has a fast walk, so I know all characters can not do that, but Vega should be able to. I also use Chun’s sweep to whiff punish it. With Blanka it’s easy. Just crouching fierce him before he lands. All you have to do is time it correctly and you should be alright. If you really have the timing down, you can go for a ball, but I personally don’t take the chance because of the damage bonus they get if they hit Blanka out of ball, but if you can do it, why not. The rest of the characters I do don’t really know. But I’m almost positive Balrog has some sort of long range punch he can use to punish on whiff.


#8

Good luck, this has always been a problem on line. Ppl DP all day if there is a bit of lag, fully knowing that they could never do that off line. Its just the nature of on-line game play.


#9

Online I’d recommend not to try to sweep him as he’s falling. use a mid/high hitting attack or airthrow


#10

That is one of the best pieces of advice in the history of fighting games. Pick up Ken, try to jab DP all day against randoms, and watch what beats you. Maybe the results will surprise you!


#11

Vega’s crouching strong is unreliable at beating out a Ken’s jab srk? :confused:

You don’t try to beat it as it’s coming up, just learn the vulnerable moments.

Ken’s jab srk doesn’t even work as an anti air against Blanka unless it’s done incredibly late. If it’s not timed early at all most of your jump ins should beat it if they’re done late. Late roundhouse, late fierce and short are all hard to punish with jab srks.

With Bision, you do have the scissor kicks, from any range they’ll connect you can let them loose right as the srk reaches it’s max height.

Just learn the timing man. It’s not that hard to deal with. These are three characters who have several tools to easily handle that situation once you understand when and where to punish him. There are a punch of others who don’t have the tools.

But you can hardly blame them for doing something so brain dead if it’s working and you can’t get around it. If it’s working for them, why should they stop?


#12

Thanks for the compliment. I’m pretty sure I got that piece of advice from someone else. I couldn’t be that original. :slight_smile:


#13

Just about everyone can hit him with a meaty low attack as he comes back down(meaty as in have the hit frames of the move out and ready when he lands). Pretty much every character’s low roundhouse is capable of punishing him. Eventually he’ll have to stop doing it because he’s bleeding life from it. Again, don’t worry about beating it on the way up, you want to punish him right after he reaches the top of his DP, on the way down.

For E. Honda, DON’T use your HHS, torpedo, or the flying stomp. I see way too many players do HHS or torpedo trying to punish it, especially fierce torpedo when he’s all the way across the screen. There’s a very high percentage chance you’ll fuck it up and not too much reward for succeding really. High percentage plays are either a meaty crouching roundhouse kick , or attempting a button-up ochio throw as he lands. (Button-up because if you do it regular style and mistime it and get a punch his next SRK will hit you, while if you do it button-up style you get 3 input chances and if those fail you just block a shoryuken and take a little chip amage). If he’s doing it from across the screen to prevent you from using your fierce torpedo you can use jab or medium torpedo to close in and then use the roundhouse to hit him out of it. If he’s doing mindgames like sometimes doing a hadouken right on the landing of the first shoryuken then just play it safe and either use only jab torpedos or just walk your way over.

For Hawk, the command throw is a little riskier because of his whiff animation. Use a crouching roundhouse.

For Cammy, a crouching roundhouse works, and does a well-timed, well-zoned spinning backfist. The backfist is a little higher risk but does better damage, although you might be happy with just using the roundhouse to knock him down so you can pressure him from there. Cannon drill technically works but I find that it’s too easy to mistime, and then you eat a jab shoryuken.

I don’t play the other characters you listed much, so I can’t say what to do with them.

If you’re on an HDTV, read the HDTV lag FAQ and try to remove all your video lag. The lag from the internet connection makes it hard enough to punish this, you don’t need to make it even harder by adding HDTV lag to the equation.

Don’t listen to minty. I don’t throw around the word scrub like some people do, but I have to say, that is a golden example of scrub mindset.


#14

I just do what should theoretically work, offline or online. If I’m really losing because of lag, big fucking deal - I know I could walk up and throw that shit any day of the week with Chun-Li, or I could throw a fireball with pretty much anyone, or I could make them land on a sweep. When I get into a situation where rollback doesn’t fuck me over, I’ll be prepared with the best possible way to beat it, because I’ve practiced doing it.


#15

great stuff guys, i didn’t know lag was the main culprit behind me missing throws, slides, etc. I would meaty slide with Bison and Vega all day to punish srk spammers only to find myself get thrown of eat another srk.


#16

With Dhalsim, you can standing forward (long) to punish it. You don’t run that risk of trying a sweep and getting hit as the second one starts. Mid-high hitting moves that come out quickly are your best bet. It can be a pain sometimes, but if there is no lag, I punish whiffed DP’s all day long. If there’s heavy lag (i.e., rollback), I would just jump back and avoid the situation altogether.


#17

st.rh with hawk, dont cr.rh
rekka x3 with fei
cr.rh with gief


#18

I don’t play all that much Hawk, but I would think that cr.HK would be better because the hit box is lower to the ground, thus less chance you stick your foot out there and get it punched by the shoryuken

Is it cause of the longer windup on the cr.HK? I could see that being a problem I guess


#19

st.rh is faster i think and has a lot more range so you dont need to waste time walking up and missing a punishment situation

cr.hk takes forever to come out


#20

They’re both really goddamn slow. It’s safer to use st.MP if he’s close enough.