Question about changes in Makoto play


#1

Was just poking through TheShend and watched Co-op Cup 2015.

It seems like Makoto players use SA1 for the most part. Did SA2 fall out of favor?

I remember previously in tournament play, SA2 was used in all matchups except against the twins / Chun-Li because they couldn’t be 100% stunned and they were hard to catch.

Did SA2 become a gimmick that people stopped falling for? Anyone know the answer why?


#2

It’s because jabs and shorts


#3

Half jabs and shorts; the other half being that negating SA2 is as easy as keeping the fight mid screen and staying out of dangerous position, which is what you should be doing anyway.

SA1 also affords Makoto a hit confirmable super from anywhere on the screen and is stupid fast (1 frame or something like that).


#4

I think it’s better for conversion from ground game. Also this is kinda theory fighter and simplistic, but I think it changes the dynamic of what the opponent is scared of. Like basically if they play SA2 you’re most scared of karakusa. If they play SA1 you’re also scared of standing strong and low short up close and low strong buffering in footsie range. The payout for those is all higher if you have a bar stocked, so defensively it sucks to be wrong no matter what Mak picks. As opposed to SA2 where it can make sense to just hold up and the punishment for being wrong isn’t as bad.

Better Mak players can correct me if I’m totally off base. But I think that makes sense.


#5

OP: I do not recall sa2 ever being that popular a super choice at the higher levels of play.

IMO sa1 is simply a more flexible super that it easier to win with against higher level opponents.


#6

Sometimes you can expect to be pushed in to the corner fairly often and fairly easily. SA2 is good in those situations. !) if you’re not as strong, the damage and subsequent mix up opportunity is good for players that don’t quite have a run of the game and spend most of their time in training mode. There might even be enough time to build up a second one while running away.

SA1 is just like any other super, it’s fast, damaging and builds fairly quick. I’m guessing most of the players have gotten much better than they used to be and now don’t feel the need for SA2 as a crutch, especially one that can back fire in its strategy by never getting a clean karakusa.


#7

I think SA2 became the choice when you want to play an all-or-nothing style.
SA1 is just more solid and allows for flexibility like Jak… said.
A good player won’t put themselves into SA2 situations very often.


#8

Depends on your training then. If it’s still difficult to develop an on the go style, then it certainly broadens your horizons, SA 1 that is, because you can keep close and create a significant gap between you and your enemy within the means of your regular meta. As opposed to SA2 where staying in the mix means putting yourself at a great risk for a longer period of time, the risk of which is increasing at a rate defined by the overlap in their exposure to your “rhythm” or “style”. The longer you stay in the mix, the more they get used to makoto’s stop and go game and the greater the chance of you getting knocked down and thrown into some bad oki or in some preferred zones for characters like Ken.

Still, SA2 has more meter. That used to mean a lot more before. 2 EX attacks, used properly or in conjuction with one another tend to provide a lot more damage a hayate combo into SA1. But players are indeed getting better, so landing those is becoming a lot more difficult.


#9

SA1 is just more kenism.
the version of 3s where ‘the best’ is always just how easy can you confirm into more damage.

tbh when i look at things that way i can see why people don’t like 3S because that sounds awfully boring.
but then you add parry (the specific way its implemented in 3S) and its infinitely replayable, fun and engaging.

oro comes to mind as one of the very few who has no supers which are kenish.
i don’t even dislike ken its just a product of the game being as old and as played as it is. The playerbase knows what works and what works is shippu.

i will forever fight the kenification of 3s and anyone who says ‘the best form of 3S is ken mirrors’.

viva hyper bomb.


#10

Oro, I read Oro!!!

Oro confirmed sf5