Just curious. Was Chris G. the first guy to run this team or did someone else figure this out?
The first person I remember running Morrigan/Doom was Nerdjosh and that was slightly before Chris G picked up the team. Omniscythe also ran Morrigan/Doom/Vergil starting from the beginning of Ultimate (roughly the same time Nerdjosh started using the exact same team), so I can’t tell you who ran that particular team first.
Obviously people have played it as early as vanilla. Dig through the old posts on the morrigan boards and you’ll see doom was actually recommended fairly often as a good partner for morrigan. Flight canceling and zoning strats were all vanilla stuff too. Chris G was just the first to truly do well with it.
Yeah I had put together morri/missiles as a way to help cover the long start up of Astral Vision during Vanilla also. Back during that time everyone was still trying to play Morrigan very rushdown based, but I figured she was more of a zoning type. Chris G just made it Hollywood by figuring it out himself and refining the spacing games and hit confirms with the shell.
I remmeber when MvC3 first dropped, there was a video showing how you can cancel the fireball with her flight, so the video was like… “call assist, fireball xx flight, fireball, land, fireball xx astral vision, repeat”…
But IIRC, you couldn’t really use it well in that game because it was so hard to play keepaway.
Morridoom would have been basically useless during vanilla because without the ability to flight cancel, her spam is… unimpressive. Plus, Phoenix made all zoning teams in vanilla completely pointless (and Wolvie didn’t help either). So anyone who was playing her in vanilla doesn’t really count.
Dieminion was the first person I saw executing UMVC3 bullet hell with her, though I think it was on a team with Joe and Strange. If there was someone using Morrigan+Doom before Chris G, it was probably a case of people figuring out the obvious at nearly the same time. That all being said, who “came up with” Morridoom is about as relevant as who really “came up with” Strider/Doom in MVC2, which is to say not at all: in each case, there’s one person who took that combo to a previously unachieved level, and that’s the person who effectively MADE that team what it is.
But for what it’s worth, Morrigan+Doom is a strategy that’s recommended in the Brady UMVC3 guide.
Throwback video of Dieminion using Chris/Doom/Morrigan in June 2011. He actually managed to get a bit of the modern day astral vision zoning going on. Suprised it was just forgotten.
You could flight cancel morrigan’s fireballs in vanilla…
In fact, when you mentioned that, I just popped the game in and tested it… and it works.
You’re right. The first time I saw bullet hell was right after Ultimate came out, so I guess it was just Phoenix and Wolvie suppressing that tech during Vanilla.
It would have eventually been decent in Vanilla, just not as strong as it is in Ultimate. She mainly got a bit faster flight start up, hit stun increase on fireballs and lower air dash height restriction. Clakey D was already doing assistless bullet hell in Vanilla with XF on top etc.
It existed in Vanilla, and when ChrisG started using that duo it was a troll team used against MarlinPie at the Break in relatively early Ultimate.
Guys, keep in mind that she could do this in Vanilla, with the ability to block during her air dashes.
She would have been even harder to hit in Vanilla.
Invincible berserker slash, dante being the best character in the game, Phoenix running the metagame and the fact she had no dhc glitch wouldve kept her from being anything above High-mid tier imo. Defintely underlooked in Vanilla but I still dont think she wouldve been worth it. Also the fact that meter gain was not an issue whatsoever in Vanilla meant that Dark harmoniser assist wasnt as important as it is now.
Maybe @Nooneyouknow can post something about Vanilla morrigan in here. I always remember him posting in the vanilla tier threads saying Morrigan was better than people thought back when she was considered bottom 10 tier.
In vanilla Soul Fist did less damage/chip, had less hit and block stun, and flight had a longer start time. Soul Fist flood simply wasn’t as strong. She also had a much higher minimum air dash height. The only thing blocking during air dashes truly gives her is the ability to use her forward “ground” dash without dying for it.
That said, vanilla had Storm with the ability to call assist during super jump float, which made Harmonizer much strong on a team with Storm, and Morrigan could finish DHC Glitches. Her hyper also did not count against the air action limit, allowing for high damage meter dump combos.
I need to toss vanilla back in, and try some of the newer ultimate combos. I know Chrisis’ infinite will work, but I’d like to see just how different the Soul Fist combos are. Pretty sure most of them simply will not work, but I should actually check.
In hind sight, I’m pretty sure Storm/Morri/Doom is hands down the best Morrigan team in vanilla, but overall Morrigan was weaker in that version, saying nothing about Wolverine. She also wasn’t a Phoenix hard counter, though she could fight it better than most.
clakey d was the first person i’ve seen abuse morrigan fireball flight cancels and astral vision.
this was WNF day 1 vanilla when everyone was bitching about sentinel. if i remember, justin got first and floe got second in that weekly.
Wouldn’t astral vision have been a DHC glitch hyper? In fact, wouldn’t it have been one of the best since she could actually build meter after the DHC? But yea I agree with everything else in your post, wolverine seems to give her some issues now, imagine how hard it would have been when he could slash right through her bullet hell.
Well, the issue with finishing DHC glitch combos with Morri was that you were forced to do the ludicrously difficult AV loops against air borne characters. I have no idea if you’ve ever messed around with any of her better AV combos in either game, but you can’t muscle memory them like, at all. Everything has to be adjusted mid combo based on character size and weight, whether Morri or the clone hit, and the height of the initial hit. And since Astral Vision doesn’t disable pushback on hit in Marvel like it does in Hunter/Savior, chains that normally work on a character suddenly didn’t while AV was active. An example off the top of my head is Zero and Sentinel :d::h: :f::h: works on them normally, but ceases to during AV. In ultimate, these two are hit just fine by that change, because of hit and hurtbox adjustments.
Phoenix still stomped out zoning in vanilla, so I’m not sure how much better Morrigan would have been; unless Morrigan can actually kill DP, there isn’t much room for upward mobility. And we’re still not even discussing what she would do to avoid being steamrolled by Wolvie.
She has some of the best normals in the game vs. Wolverine any way. Especially with invincible assist backing she’d do pretty fine vs. Wolvie. They might have done a bit of buffing to her hit bubbles, but if you take a look at them they’re all fucking ridiculous and make it very tough for most other normals to even trade with. j.H basically turns her into a red ball of hit box. Like Dante, Zero etc. she would end up being one of the better characters vs. Wolvie.
Yeah Phoenix defeated the purpose of zoning in Vanilla because 5 bars came super easy just by getting hit by stuff. Though Morrigan is not just a zoning character so she’d be able to manage in that respect also. She has very capable rush and her zone basically just sets up safe scenarios to rush in with because eventually you will block fireballs+missiles for free mix up.
I wonder what Morrigan’s DHC glitch potential was like. For instance she could DHC into Astral Vision from Hyper Grav/Magnetic Tempest whiff and fireball juggle. Not sure how much damage it would do or how long you could keep it up though. Just another aspect of vanilla Morrigan’s potential.
edit: Now if she had Soul Drain, her DHC glitch combos would be off the chain.