Quick question on the choice of attack when jumping in

zangief

#1

Hey there folks. I’m new to these forums, and first of all I just want to say thanks for the amount of content from this website I’ve used. I hope that as I continue to grow I will be able to help others out with the knowledge I’ve gained. Currently climbing up the XBox Live ladder approaching rank B (hahah nothing to you guys I know) - Tag: SystemToxicity (actually my friend’s, I just play on it)

But anyway, my question in the instances where it’s a good idea to jump in with Zangief, why does no one really talk about j.HK? I get a lot of results for the body slam, which I seem to miss or get punished during, or the j.HP which I feel has a less useful position for hitting them. However, in my experience a good j.HK to a sweep is painful for my opponents, and one of the only ways I’ve ever dizzied someone without a headbutt. Can I get an answer on why this move just isn’t as supported? It could just be the level of scrubby shoto fools on Xbox live eating it over and over, but knowing why players choose the other moves would be helpful to me. Thanks a lot!


#2

I dunno, I think ive jumped in with RH once or twice.
MK is usually very good cuz he sticks it out at a nice angle and comes out quick, beats a lot of other weird air moves. Also hits early so you can tick an spd on landing. If I need the range Ill go for a hp, but not too often cuz itll stick my legs behind me and make me eat a fireball sometimes.
In which case sometimes jumping in with d+lk knees will shrink your box and make you avoid slow fireballs sometimes.
And by jumping in I assume you mean no crossing up. cuz once hes on the floor you can opt for regular xover jumps or coming up short with short jumps, then throw in your splash, knees and empties.


#3

I dunno, I think ive jumped in with RH once or twice.
MK is usually very good cuz he sticks it out at a nice angle and comes out quick, beats a lot of other weird air moves. Also hits early so you can tick an spd on landing. If I need the range Ill go for a hp, but not too often cuz itll stick my legs behind me and make me eat a fireball sometimes.
In which case sometimes jumping in with d+lk knees will shrink your box and make you avoid slow fireballs sometimes.
And by jumping in I assume you mean no crossing up. cuz once hes on the floor you can opt for regular xover jumps or coming up short with short jumps, then throw in your splash, knees and empties.


#4

Some thoughts on Some thoughts on Gief’s aerials:

J.FP: Good in fireball wars. Smack them in the head if you anticipate a fireball and jump it. Even if you land on a fireball it tends to be a trade in your favour. This is go to for range as you’ve probably figured out, but it’s worth pointing out that this it’s not helpful at close range against people with fast walk speed since if they decided to pressure with an advancing poke or move then they can just go straight under gief and get a throw/combo. Other go to aerials don’t have this problem as much.

J.MK: Your deep air to ground jump-in. Not always guaranteed, but it has the best chance to beat/trade with crouching normals. Can be used well as a tick since if you’re in range for J.mk you generally land in jab spd range. Will beat horizontal and vertical blanka balls clean most of the time when it is out (although vert ball comes out so fast it’s generally not a great thing to try too much).

Body Splash: Not great priority against grounded AA normals, best for crossup, but has a nice wide hitbox to threaten with when used as a non-crossup jump-in at close range. Generally works best when timed to hit as soon as it comes out so you don’t widen your hittable box for longer than is necessary on the way down to hit them.

Double knees: good tick, good crossup to stuff jumps and possibly some DPs too. Shifts trajectory and makes you unpredictable. It’s biggest problem is the lack of hit or block stun because generally since anything that is not a command throw is easier to punish/beat/trade/reversal. It’s good for a fast tick that is hard to react to, but generally for cross-ups I tend to prefer splash since it gives you much more hit/block-stun to work with. More of a mixup than a go-to aerial imo.

S.MP: Good Air to air normal. Nice range and speed (neutral j.mp also has a nice bit of range, but I tend to use headbutt since it’s a lot more threatening to the opponent and a smart one will generally be pretty scared of it)

J.HK: I think this is less favoured since it has less range compared to J.FP and doesn’t hit as deep as J.MK, but it works well as an Air to Air (like when they decide to jump away from you at close range). Not bad for close range jumping I suppose and it can be used to trade easier in some situations other aerials (Claw’s flip-kick springs to mind) but the previously mentioned details about J.FP and J.MK illustrate why it is less popular. Perhaps it’s worth more at close range for extra hit/block stun.

Headbutt: Not a jump-in, but I’m sure all gief players realise how dangerous this move is if you know the right situations to apply it in.

The rest of gief’s aerials aren’t ones I see used at all really. Some may be good for certain specific scenarios but the other aerials I’ve mentioned here are probably just as good/better with a wider range of possible applications


#5

j.HK is never used because there are better moves. I can’t think of any situation where j.HK is preferred. I can see that you’re new since you love to go to the j.HK into sweep. My tip for you is to stop doing that immediately. Gief’s sweep is extremely punishable on block. I’m not really sure why all new player’s bnb go to is jump HK into sweep. I guess I just learned not to do that since '92 when I found out there’s better things you can do off of a jump in.

j.lp is a good air to air move since it comes out fast. It’s useful to beat out j.HP from sim and Seth.
You can use j.mp to try to catch air tastus or ex rainbow rolls out of the corner.


#6

After you hit with a jump in if your looking for something better than sweep which is bad start by going for c lk to exgh. It’s easy good damage great postioning after the knock down. I just don’t really use sweep at all for the most part.

Jump ins from far hp or empty from mid range mk Or empty from close splash or knees or empty don’t use anything else at your level.


#7

I use a mid time j.MP. It combos into cr.LP and cr.LK which allows you to BnB knockdown and also will tag jumpers if they try to predict the empty jump they get air reset. The hitbox is much more vertical and then horizontal like j.HP so it is much easier to time it so you will either hit them in air or even ducking. IMO with j.MK if you have been read properly Gief sticking out his foot can be reversed much easier than j.lp and j.mp. I feel very vulnerable in SSF4 going in with j.MK.


#8

This is smart I got this effect before without realizing it but j.mp really does work like that and I am going to use it more.

Also jump roundhouse has some strange properties that make it confusing to anti air when used occasionally, I will look into it and write more. It’s currently my favorite attack for safe jumping when you are outside of crossup range.


#9

This. Its not used, because there are areails which accel in all categories. Range? j.fp. Stun? Headbutt. Vert? j.lp/j.mp. Jumping poke attack? j.mk. Cross-up? Knees/Splash.

Honestly the best move to compare j.hk to is j.fp. The big difference for me is the hitbox. Most of the time when Gief is jumping, its from a fireball war (not always and not calling it ‘the’ tactic for fb wars, but you know what I’m getting at). When he jumps, j.hk makes him completely horizontal…all 7 ft of him. J.Hp however is NOT horizontal, it looks more like (on a clock) 10:20. The advantage is moves such as fireballs have a better chance of hitting the backside of Gief using j.hk.

In an air-to-air situation, you have a few different setups. If you go vertical while the opponenet goes at an angle, j.hk will give you an extended range to hit or GET HIT…which means those pesky as Guiles can and wil lsetup sonicboom traps freely, and wil lgrab your baby toe for damage. On the flipside however, the range on headbutt makes it the perfect defense for that situation, even giving you additional stun. If you jump twoards each other, your in a similar predicament…j.hk is extrmeely (at least for me) succeptable to air throws, and the timing is pretty strict…read what Clyde said…use that j.mp or j.lp. Now if your jumping backwards, in an air to air situation, I think its a toss up between j.mp and j.rh if your peak jumps are timed similar. If the timing is off, then there are better moves (j.mk if you jump before, and j.mp if you jump afterwards)…but its the onl time I see j.hk really being a possibly dominant move. Otherwise…yeah use the other moves.

And I’m the furthest thing from a snob borderline scrub at times - but real talk, - I’m co-signing what crapface is saying, stop doing jump attack sweep. There are so many more better options…that lead to even better stun, better damage…everything…and I’m not even talking the ridiculously hard to time c.lkx4 comboes. Learn at least the basic c.lpx2,c.lk,exgh combo, not only is it better in almost all regards, but it creates oppurtunities to land shenanigans. As well…sweep is so slow, I wouldn’t be surprised if Ryu could just ultra on sight and hit you with it.

  • :bluu:

#10

SSJ what are you talking about you dont jump in.


#11

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and this is on a game where jumping is worse than jumping in sf4


#12

The only time I use J.Hk (I’ve always called it “drop kick”) is to chase opponents who are jumping away but not far enough for GG. Or, once in a great while, when somebody whiffs a DP at medium range or such. Not a terrible option if I’m trying to build meter and not use EX-GG.


#13

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