Random JD data


#1

JD frame advantage testing chart for various Characters normals(some partial)

[Last Updated: 8/18/11]

Things to do when your bored. Buktooth said this would be the best choice of the things to do when bored, so…
(see code box at the bottom of the post)

Made this using an excel spreadsheet, using Buktooth’s guesstimate formula for calculating JD frame data, I produced a table of guesstimates for several characters normals. And Guile’s Backfist command move. Haha.

Since Shoryuken doesn’t allow attachment posting, I converted the spreadsheet to text, pasted it as code. Copy and paste it into a text file for easier viewing.
[Edit: Hopefully, it appears somewhat better now in the forum post, but I still recommend saving it to your computer. I converted the excel file to a unicode TXT file. Hopefully, most of the spacing issues should be solved, a few rogue ones left]

Currently Available: (in order of appearance on the chart)

Capcom:
Sagat(partial)
Blanka(partial)
M.Bison/Vega(partial)
Sakura(partial)
Guile(partial)
Claw Vega
Eagle
Rolento
Cammy
Chun Li
Ryu (fixed!)
[New as of last update]
Ken
Gouki
Morrigan
Maki
E. Honda

SNK:
Iori
Geese
Kyo
Haohmaru (LOL, worst minuses ever?)
Rock
Hibiki
Yamazaki
Terry
Todo
[New as of last update]
Vice
Kim
Yuri
Rugal

Strangely enough, I only did partial stuff for the first few characters. Why? Originally, I intended for the chart to be a concise, here’s some common moves, here’s the data. But since it doesn’t take much effort to add in the rest, I was like, eh why not, and for the later chars, did the whole thing. The top tiers I did first are thus incomplete :D.

Buktooth’s estimate for strong and heavy moves is 14-16 frames, and 18-20 frames of hit stun. Since I’m a lazy bum, I simply bruteforced out all the possible values.
So if a move says -15 -16 -17
it means it’s likely -16, but could be -15 or -17 as well

Basically, I created a spreadsheet with the names of the chars and move names. Added 7 columns, which all calculated 10-active+recovery frames, 14-(active+recovery frames), etc.
Then deleted the nonrelevant columns, convert to text, copy and paste it in.

Note, since these are based off the guesstimate formula, this chart is meant for TESTING PURPOSES only. Remember, Buktooths’ formula are estimates. Multi hitting moves, moves which inflict abnormal amounts of blockstun, may not follow the formula. Like maybe Rolento’s cr. MP inflicts odd blockstun, Eagle’s 2 hit medium punches, Geese’s two hit close RH, and so on. Those numbers may not be accurate, so beware of nonstandard normal moves.

Anyways, the idea is to look at a particular matchup, say let’s do, Geese vs. Kyo. You should know what the common pokes are, check the disadvantages, see if you can get anything free, then go test it in training mode to confirm that it works.

So for Geese vs. Kyo, I’d look under Kyo’s data.
And I’d see, far st. RH, cr. MK, and cr. RH all look like I could earn a free sweep with Geese. Also if the other guy loves to use close st. MP as a meaty (trendy!), and frequently mistimes it too early, if you wake up with a JD, unless he hits very near the end of it, you can go ahead and press jabs, or whatever you use up close to seize control.

Or say if Blanka touches you with cr. short, and you JD. Chart says +0. Most Blanka’s will likely press cr. short again, 4 frame move. If you have a 2 frame move, or 3 frame, in a foot race you’ll likely win.

Basically I guess, see if you can get back free hits if you JD stuff, can you seize momentum off a right guess, which meaties are safe, which ones suck, etc, if there’s holes in poke strings to JD ,can you get anything off it?

Sources: Used Windy’s site, FinestKO, Just-Defend, Buktooth’s Iori FAQ (and soon prolly his Morrigan FAQ too :D), Smooth’s scans of the CvS2 book, and all the other frame data that’s ever been posted. I.e. Whenever possible, I took it from another source, simply because my eyesight is beyond awful. 6 and 8’s look the same to me…so do 5’s for that matter and…



CvS2 JD chart												

Capcom												

Character	Move	Startup	Active	Recovery		LP	MP			HP		
Sagat												
	st. LP	2	3	6		1						
	f s. HP	6	8	20						-10	-9	-8
	st. LK	*	6	10		-6						
	st. MK	*	8	24			-18	-17	-16			
	cr. LK	3	4	6		0						
	cr. MK	4	5	17			-8	-7	-6			
	cr. HP	7	8	14						-4	-3	-2
	cr. RH	7	8	23						-13	-12	-11
												
Blanka												
	st. LP	2	2	11		-3						
	st. MP	7	6	9			-1	0	1			
	st. HP	6	12	15						-9	-8	-7
	st. RH	7	6	24						-12	-11	-10
	cr. LP	4	4	13		-7						
	cr. MP	6	4	24			-14	-13	-12			
	cr. HP	*	5	23						-10	-9	-8
	cr. LK	4	4	6		0						
	cr. MK	5	6	11			-3	-2	-1			
	cr. RH	7	4	23						-9	-8	-7
												
M. Bison												
	st. LP		4	7		-1						
	st. f MP	4	6	17			-9	-8	-7			
	st. c HP	5	10	20						-12	-11	-10
	st. f HP	5	12	20						-14	-13	-12
	st. LK	4	6	12		-8						
	st. f MK	9	7	18			-11	-10	-9			
	st. f RH	12	8	29						-19	-18	-17
	cr. LP	2	4	7		-1						
	cr. MP	6	8	14			-8	-7	-6			
	cr. HP	7	8	25						-15	-14	-13
	cr. LK	3	6	7		-3						
	cr. MK	4	6	11			-3	-2	-1			
												
Sakura												
	st. LP	2	4	5		1						
	st. f MP	5	5	12			-3	-2	-1			
	st. c HP	3	8	27						-17	-16	-15
	st. LK	3	5	13		-8						
	st. MK	7	7	21			-14	-13	-12			
	st. f RH	8	5	17						-4	-3	-2
	cr .LP	3	4	6		0						
	cr. HP	3	11	26						-19	-18	-17
	cr. LK	3	4	8		-2						
	cr. MK	4	4	24			-14	-13	-12			
	cr. RH	6	3	35						-20	-19	-18
												
Guile												
	st. LP	3	4	6		0						
	st. f MP	4	5	18			-9	-8	-7			
	st. c HP	4	3	30						-15	-14	-13
	st. f HP	6	6	18						-6	-5	-4
	st. f MK	11	5	14			-5	-4	-3			
	st. f RH	15	6	14						-2	-1	0
	cr. LP	3	4	6		0						
	cr. MP	4	5	10			-1	0	1			
	cr. HP	5	16	11						-9	-8	-7
	cr. LK	6	4	9		-3						
	cr. MK	7	5	9			0	1	2			
	f + HP	8	5	19						-6	-5	-4
												
Claw Vega												
	st. LP	3	4	6		0						
	st. MP	8	4	19			-9	-8	-7			
	st. HP	9	11	21						-14	-13	-12
	st. LK	3	4	7		-1						
	st. MK	6	9	15			-10	-9	-8			
	st. RH	4	10	23						-15	-14	-13
	cr. LP	4	4	6		0						
	cr. MP	4	8	21			-15	-14	-13			
	cr. HP	5	12	27						-21	-20	-19
	cr. LK	4	4	6		0						
	cr. MK	5	6	13			-5	-4	-3			
	cr. RH	8	9	29						-20	-19	-18
												
Eagle												
	st. LP	3	4	6		0						
	st. MP	*	7	17			-10	-9	-8			
	c st. HP	5	8	26						-16	-15	-14
	f st. HP	8	3	38						-23	-22	-21
	st. LK	4	4	11		-5						
	st. MK	4	6	16			-8	-7	-6			
	c st. RH	8	9	17						-8	-7	-6
	f st. RH	7	3	32						-17	-16	-15
	cr. LP	3	4	6		0						
	cr. MP	*	4	22			-12	-11	-10			
	cr. HP	5	9	29						-20	-19	-18
	cr. LK	3	4	8		-2						
	cr. MK	5	6	11			-3	-2	-1			
	cr. RH	11	4	29						-15	-14	-13
												
Rolento												
	st. LP	3	4	6		0						
	st. MP	9	8	8			-2	-1	0			
	c st. HP	7	4	27						-13	-12	-11
	f st HP	14	4	28						-14	-13	-12
	st. LK	5	4	10		-4						
	st. MK	6	5	16			-7	-6	-5			
	st. RH	10	3	28						-13	-12	-11
	cr. LP	3	4	7		-1						
	cr. MP	*	4	14			-4	-3	-2			
	cr. HP	8	4	22						-8	-7	-6
	cr. LK	4	4	10		-4						
	cr. MK	4	4	17			-7	-6	-5			
	cr. RH	8	10	24						-16	-15	-14
												
Cammy												
	c st. LP	2	3	6		1						
	f st. LP	3	4	7		-1						
	c st. MP	4	4	16			-6	-5	-4			
	f st. MP	4	4	11			-1	0	1			
	c. st HP	3	4	10						4	5	6
	f st HP	3	10	9						-1	0	1
	c st LK	3	6	6		-2						
	f st LK	4	8	8		-6						
	c st MK	5	2	16			-4	-3	-2			
	f st MK	7	2	17			-5	-4	-3			
	c st. RH	8	8	15						-5	-4	-3
	f st RH	5	10	22						-14	-13	-12
	cr. LP	3	4	6		0						
	cr. MP	4	4	9			1	2	3			
	cr. HP	6	8	12						-2	-1	0
	cr. LK	4	4	8		-2						
	cr. MK	4	7	13			-6	-5	-4			
	cr. RH	9	6	25						-13	-12	-11
												
Chun Li												
	st. LP	2	4	9		-3						
	st c MP	*	2	22			-10	-9	-8			
	st f MP	5	8	13			-7	-6	-5			
	st c HP	3	8	20						-10	-9	-8
	st f HP	11	8	21						-11	-10	-9
	st c LK	3	5	9		-4						
	st f LK	5	4	13		-7						
	st c MK	9	7	14			-7	-6	-5			
	st f MK	6	6	19			-11	-10	-9			
	st c RH	4	9	22						-13	-12	-11
	st f RH	11	3	25						-10	-9	-8
	cr. LP	2	4	7		-1						
	cr. MP	4	9	17			-12	-11	-10			
	cr. HP	7	11	20						-13	-12	-11
	cr. LK	4	4	11		-5						
	cr. MK	8	4	14			-4	-3	-2			
	cr. RH	7	8	27						-17	-16	-15
												
Ryu												
	st. LP	2	4	6		0						
	st. c MP	3	3	20			-9	-8	-7			
	st. f MP	5	6	17			-9	-8	-7			
	st.c HP	3	8	24						-14	-13	-12
	st. f HP	7	10	20						-12	-11	-10
	st. c LK	4	8	7		-5						
	st. f LK	4	8	6		-4						
	st. c MK	3	8	16			-10	-9	-8			
	st. f MK	8	8	12			-6	-5	-4			
	st. c RH	*	4	18						-4	-3	-2
	st. f RH	4	12	18						-12	-11	-10
	cr. LP	3	4	6		0						
	cr. MP	4	7	9			-2	-1	0			
	cr. HP	3	11	26						-19	-18	-17
	cr. LK	3	4	8		-2						
	cr. MK	4	6	17			-9	-8	-7			
	cr. RH	6	6	35						-23	-22	-21
												
Ken												
	st. LP	2	4	6		0						
	st. c MP	3	3	20			-9	-8	-7			
	st. f MP	5	6	17			-9	-8	-7			
	st.c HP	3	8	24						-14	-13	-12
	st. f HP	5	4	26						-12	-11	-10
	st. LK	4	8	7		-5						
	st. c MK	3	8	11			-5	-4	-3			
	st. f MK	8	8	12			-6	-5	-4			
	st. c RH	4	9	13						-4	-3	-2
	st. f RH	9	5	30						-17	-16	-15
	cr. LP	3	4	6		0						
	cr. MP	4	7	11			-4	-3	-2			
	cr. HP	3	11	26						-19	-18	-17
	cr. LK	3	4	8		-2						
	cr. MK	4	6	17			-9	-8	-7			
	cr. RH	6	6	35						-23	-22	-21
												
Gouki												
	st. LP	2	4	6		0						
	st. c MP	3	10	11			-7	-6	-5			
	st. f MP	5	6	17			-9	-8	-7			
	st.c HP	3	8	24						-14	-13	-12
	st. f HP	8	8	23						-13	-12	-11
	st. LK	4	8	7		-5						
	st. c MK	3	8	16			-10	-9	-8			
	st. f MK	8	8	12			-6	-5	-4			
	st. c RH	*	4	18						-4	-3	-2
	st. f RH	4	12	18						-12	-11	-10
	cr. LP	3	4	6		0						
	cr. MP	4	7	11			-4	-3	-2			
	cr. HP	3	11	26						-19	-18	-17
	cr. LK	3	4	8		-2						
	cr. MK	4	6	17			-9	-8	-7			
	cr. RH	6	6	35						-23	-22	-21
												
Morrigan												
	st. c LP	2	3	7		0						
	st. f LP	3	3	7		0						
	st. c MP	4	12	14			-12	-11	-10			
	st. f MP	4	10	10			-6	-5	-4			
	st.c HP	5	6	22						-10	-9	-8
	st. f HP	8	4	26						-12	-11	-10
	st. LK	4	3	7		0						
	st. MK	6	11	8			-5	-4	-3			
	st. c RH	*	3	27						-12	-11	-10
	st. f RH	10	9	22						-13	-12	-11
	cr. LP	*	3	6		1						
	cr. MP	4	15	6			-7	-6	-5			
	cr. HP	8	3	24						-9	-8	-7
	cr. LK	3	3	7		0						
	cr. MK	4	11	8			-5	-4	-3			
	cr. RH	7	4	25						-11	-10	-9
												
Maki												
	st. c LP	3	4	8		-2						
	st. f LP	3	4	8		-2						
	st. c MP	5	6	11			-3	-2	-1			
	st. f MP	6	6	20			-12	-11	-10			
	st.c HP	6	4	28						-14	-13	-12
	st. f HP	6	4	38						-24	-23	-22
	st. LK	5	6	8		-4						
	st. c MK	5	4	17			-7	-6	-5			
	st. f MK	6	6	16			-8	-7	-6			
	st. c RH	5	4	31						-17	-16	-15
	st. f RH	6	6	21						-9	-8	-7
	cr. LP	3	4	8		-2						
	cr. MP	6	4	13			-3	-2	-1			
	cr. HP	6	6	19						-7	-6	-5
	cr. LK	3	4	9		-3						
	cr. MK	6	6	17			-9	-8	-7			
	cr. RH	7	4	27						-13	-12	-11
												
E. Honda												
	st. LP	4	6	6		-2						
	st. MP	6	7	10			-3	-2	-1			
	st. HP	6	7	19						-8	-7	-6
	st. LK	6	8	6		-4						
	st. c MK	*	2	18			-6	-5	-4			
	st. f MK	*	6	9			-1	0	1			
	st. RH	*	8	20						-10	-9	-8
	cr. LP	4	8	6		-4						
	cr. MP	5	8	13			-7	-6	-5			
	cr. HP	6	4	33						-19	-18	-17
	cr. LK	4	6	6		-2						
	cr. MK	*	1	19			-6	-5	-4			
	cr. RH	6	5	26						-13	-12	-11
												
												
												
												
												
												
												
												
												
												
												
SNK												
Character	Move	Startup	Active	Recovery		LP	MP			HP		
Iori												
	st c LP	2	4	6		0						
	st f LP	2	4	8		-2						
	st. MP	7	3	25			-14	-13	-12			
	st.c HP	3	6	24						-12	-11	-10
	st.f HP	7	5	26						-13	-12	-11
	st c LK	3	4	10		-4						
	st f LK	6	6	8		-4						
	st. MK	6	3	26			-15	-14	-13			
	st. c RH	6	3	21						-6	-5	-4
	st. f RH	9	7	22						-11	-10	-9
	cr. LP	3	4	8		-2						
	cr. MP	4	6	9			-1	0	1			
	cr. HP	4	5	20						-7	-6	-5
	cr. LK	4	4	8		-2						
	cr. MK	5	4	20			-10	-9	-8			
	cr. RH	9	4	36						-22	-21	-20
													
Geese													
	st. LP	3	4	6		0							
	st c MP	4	9	14			-9	-8	-7				
	st f MP	5	9	14			-9	-8	-7				
	st c HP	4	11	24						-17	-16	-15	
	st f HP	8	6	20						-8	-7	-6	
	st c LK	2	4	6		0							
	st f LK	4	4	14		-8							
	st. MK	8	8	17			-11	-10	-9				
	st c RH	*	6	16						-4	-3	-2	
	st f RH	18	8	19						-9	-8	-7	
	cr. LP	3	4	5		1							
	cr. MP	7	7	14			-7	-6	-5				
	cr. HP	3	9	27						-18	-17	-16	
	cr. LK	3	4	7		-1							
	cr. MK	4	7	14			-7	-6	-5				
	cr. RH	6	4	35						-21	-20	-19	
													
Kyo													
	st. c LP	2	6	6		-2							
	st f LP	3	5	7		-2							
	st c MP	3	12	11			-9	-8	-7				
	st f MP	4	6	22			-14	-13	-12				
	st. HP	8	8	17						-7	-6	-5	
	st. c LK	4	4	11		-5							
	st f LK	5	4	14		-8							
	st c MK	4	5	16			-7	-6	-5				
	st f MK	8	5	19			-10	-9	-8				
	st c RH	4	4	21						-7	-6	-5	
	st f RH	7	7	24						-13	-12	-11	
	cr. LP	3	4	7		-1							
	cr. MP	4	7	9			-2	-1	0				
	cr. HP	5	6	29						-17	-16	-15	
	cr. LK	3	4	7		-1							
	cr. MK	7	9	16			-11	-10	-9				
	cr. RH	8	6	22						-10	-9	-8	
													
Haohmaru													
	st. LP	3	4	16		-10							
	st c MP	6	4	27			-17	-16	-15				
	st f MP	8	6	22			-14	-13	-12				
	st c HP	11	4	42						-28	-27	-26	
	st f HP	18	4	52						-38	-37	-36	
	st LK	4	2	13		-5							
	st c MK	4	3	23			-12	-11	-10				
	st f MK	6	5	23			-14	-13	-12				
	st c RH	6	7	21						-10	-9	-8	
	st f RH	9	3	26						-11	-10	-9	
	cr. LP	2	4	17		-11							
	cr. MP	6	2	25			-13	-12	-11				
	cr. HP	5	5	46						-33	-32	-31	
	cr. LK	3	4	8		-2							
	cr. MK	4	8	11			-5	-4	-3				
	cr. RH	16	8	25						-15	-14	-13	
													
Rock													
	st. c LP	3	4	8		-2							
	st f LP	3	7	4		-1							
	st c MP	3	5	13			-4	-3	-2				
	st f MP	5	7	17			-10	-9	-8				
	st c HP	4	3	31						-16	-15	-14	
	st f HP	7	3	33						-18	-17	-16	
	st. c LK	2	6	9		-5							
	st f LK	5	7	9		-6						
	st c MK	2	9	16			-11	-10	-9			
	st f MK	8	6	15			-7	-6	-5			
	st c RH	4	8	20						-10	-9	-8
	st f RH	8	9	19						-10	-9	-8
	cr. LP	4	3	6		1						
	cr. MP	3	6	25			-17	-16	-15			
	cr. HP	8	10	22						-14	-13	-12
	cr. LK	4	4	7		-1						
	cr. MK	4	8	20			-14	-13	-12			
	cr. RH	5	3	30						-15	-14	-13
												
Hibiki												
	st. LP	3	4	8		-2						
	st c MP	4	4	18			-8	-7	-6			
	st f MP	6	4	17			-7	-6	-5			
	st c HP	3	8	41						-31	-30	-29
	st f HP	7	4	41						-27	-26	-25
	st. LK	5	8	7		-5						
	st c MK	5	6	11			-3	-2	-1			
	st f MK	13	3	28			-17	-16	-15			
	st c RH	8	6	27						-15	-14	-13
	st f RH	12	4	40						-26	-25	-24
	cr. LP	4	5	12		-7						
	cr. MP	5	4	19			-9	-8	-7			
	cr. HP	5	4	32						-18	-17	-16
	cr. LK	3	4	10		-4						
	cr. MK	5	6	20			-12	-11	-10			
	cr. RH	8	4	34						-20	-19	-18
												
Yamazaki												
	st. c LP	2	4	6		0						
	st f LP	3	4	7		-1						
	st c MP	5	3	23			-12	-11	-10			
	st f MP	6	7	17			-10	-9	-8			
	st c HP	7	10	20						-12	-11	-10
	st f HP	7	4	19						-5	-4	-3
	st. c LK	4	4	6		0						
	st f LK	7	4	8		-2						
	st MK	8	9	13			-8	-7	-6			
	st c RH	*	8	16						-6	-5	-4
	st f RH	9	7	17						-6	-5	-4
	cr. LP	3	4	7		-1						
	cr. MP	8	4	19			-9	-8	-7			
	cr. HP	4	8	28						-18	-17	-16
	cr. LK	3	4	7		-1						
	cr. MK	4	6	11			-3	-2	-1			
	cr. RH	7	6	23						-11	-10	-9
												
Terry												
	st. c LP	2	4	6		0						
	st. f LP	3	4	7		-1						
	st. c MP	4	7	13			-6	-5	-4			
	st f MP	5	6	13			-5	-4	-3			
	st. c HP	*	12	12						-6	-5	-4
	st. f HP	7	3	31						-16	-15	-14
	st. c LK	4	4	9		-3						
	st. f LK	5	5	11		-6						
	st. c MK	4	5	13			-4	-3	-2			
	st. f MK	9	6	16			-8	-7	-6			
	st. c RH	4	6	20						-8	-7	-6
	st. f RH	13	8	22						-12	-11	-10
	cr. LP	3	4	7		-1						
	cr. MP	4	6	11			-3	-2	-1			
	cr. HP	7	7	13						-2	-1	0
	cr. LK	3	4	8		-2						
	cr. MK	5	8	17			-11	-10	-9			
	cr. RH	6	6	29						-17	-16	-15
												
Todo												
	st. LP	4	4	10		-4						
	st c MP	6	4	10			0	1	2			
	st f MP	5	4	17			-7	-6	-5			
	st c HP	8	4	26						-12	-11	-10
	st f HP	10	4	30						-16	-15	-14
	st. LK	5	4	15		-9						
	st c MK	5	4	22			-12	-11	-10			
	st f MK	8	6	16			-8	-7	-6			
	st c RH	12	4	34						-20	-19	-18
	st f RH	15	4	22						-8	-7	-6
	cr. LP	3	4	5		1							
	cr. MP	5	4	20			-10	-9	-8				
	cr. HP	7	6	25						-13	-12	-11	
	cr. LK	4	4	11		-5							
	cr. MK	5	6	14			-6	-5	-4				
	cr. RH	8	4	32						-18	-17	-16	

Vice													
	st. c LP	2	4	5		1							
	st. f LP	3	4	6		0							
	st. c MP	5	10	12			-8	-7	-6				
	st. f MP	6	5	17			-8	-7	-6				
	st. c HP	4	6	14						-2	-1	0	
	st. f HP	17	11	25						-18	-17	-16	
	st. LK	*	6	13		-9							
	st. c MK	3	7	17			-10	-9	-8				
	st. f MK	7	8	16			-10	-9	-8				
	st. c RH	*	4	18						-4	-3	-2	
	st. f RH	6	6	24						-12	-11	-10	
	cr. LP	3	4	6		0							
	cr. MP	5	3	26			-15	-14	-13				
	cr. HP	4	10	21						-13	-12	-11	
	cr. LK	4	6	8		-4							
	cr. MK	5	8	17			-11	-10	-9				
	cr. RH	6	6	24						-12	-11	-10	

Kim													
	st. LP	3	4	8		-2							
	st. MP	5	5	15			-6	-5	-4				
	st. c HP	*	4	24						-10	-9	-8	
	st. f HP	9	4	24						-10	-9	-8	
	st. c LK	2	6	14		-10							
	st. f LK	6	6	8		-4						
	st. MK	7	7	14			-7	-6	-5			
	st. RH	18	4	28						-14	-13	-12
	cr. LP	3	2	6		2						
	cr. MP	4	4	13			-3	-2	-1			
	cr. HP	9	2	30						-14	-13	-12
	cr. LK	3	4	7		-1						
	cr. MK	5	7	16			-9	-8	-7			
	cr. RH	7	4	30						-16	-15	-14

Yuri												
	st. c LP	2	4	5		1						
	st. f LP	3	4	5		1						
	st. c MP	4	3	20			-9	-8	-7			
	st. f MP	4	7	11			-4	-3	-2			
	st. c HP	4	9	13						-4	-3	-2
	st. f HP	12	2	23						-7	-6	-5
	st. c LK	2	5	4		1						
	st. f LK	5	6	11		-7						
	st. c MK	4	5	15			-6	-5	-4			
	st. f MK	8	6	15			-7	-6	-5			
	st. c RH	4	7	17						-6	-5	-4
	st. f RH	8	6	14						-2	-1	0
	cr. LP	3	4	6		0						
	cr. MP	4	6	15			-7	-6	-5			
	cr. HP	3	10	28						-20	-19	-18
	cr. LK	3	4	6		0						
	cr. MK	4	6	15			-7	-6	-5			
	cr. RH	*	10	28						-20	-19	-18

Rugal												
	st. LP	4	6	7		-3						
	st. MP	5	4	24			-14	-13	-12			
	st. c HP	4	4	34						-20	-19	-18
	st. f HP	10	6	30						-18	-17	-16
	st. c LK	4	4	9		-3						
	st. f LK	4	6	9		-5						
	st. c MK	4	11	11			-8	-7	-6			
	st. f MK	5	5	27			-18	-17	-16			
	st. c RH	4	7	26						-15	-14	-13
	st. f RH	10	8	24						-14	-13	-12
	cr. LP	4	4	6		0						
	cr. MP	4	3	18			-7	-6	-5			
	cr. HP	*	7	27						-16	-15	-14
	cr. LK	3	4	9		-3						
	cr. MK	5	7	19			-12	-11	-10			
	cr. RH	6	4	29						-15	-14	-13




#2

Wow, keep up the good work.

Is there anyway you can send me the excel file. It still shows up funny in text.


#3

wow, i love you.


#4

Hmm, that’s part of the problem Shin. I’d like to post the actual excel file, but SRK doesn’t allow attachments. I guess you could send me your email, and I could send it to you, but it’d get inefficient if I had to send it to everyone. Plus updeates. The text in the code is somewhat better aligned now though, so…

Sample commentary, on random character moves of choice.
Basically, what I see when I read the chart, an example of what the intended uses of this chart are for? Note, this stuff is based on assuming the JD chart is right. I’d need to actually test this stuff on console(which I do NOT have) to make sure it’s right.

Things to keep in mind:
The fastest jabs/shorts are 2 frames.
Common jabs/shorts are 3 frames.
Common cr. strongs or forwards are typically 4-5 frame moves.
Common sweeps are 6 frames.

To punish a move, the disadvantage must be higher than the startup time of the move. Like if the JD data said -7, you have a 1 frame window to hit it back with a 6 frame sweep. Punishing -6 with a 6 frame move wouldn’t work, as they would recover just as the move becomes active.

1 frame windows to perform an action are in general not reliable at all. 2 frame windows are tough, but with practice can be counted on somewhat reliably, 3 is fairly reliable, and anything more is fairly easy.

So saying, punish a -7 move, with a sweep everytime, is impractical. There’ll often be a 1 frame or greater gap for the other guy to slip something through, so you might eat RC’s, uppercuts, rolls, and so on fairly often. So try to look for stuff with wider windows.

Also, performing a 1 frame punishment to a JD’d move is much harder, in comparison to performing a 1 frame link. First of all, you don’t have control of when to press your button. Like if you’re doing a combo, you can use muscle memory to help with the timing. Once you’ve hit button A, it’s a set rhythm to hit button B, to make it all combo. When you JD, you have to react to the JD flash, or something, and then hit your button, or do your move. Basically, timing off of a visual cue or something is harder, than timing off something you directly control (button presses). So don’t be surprised if you can’t do 2 frame window JD punishments without practice, and even then not consistently.


Sagat:

st. LP:
Sagat’s standing jab is fast fire, so even if it gave a minus on JD, it wouldn’t matter, as they could simply chain another jab. Sadly (for the defender), his jab gives +1, and since it’s a 2 frame jab, he’s still fairly free to do whatever he wants after. If he’s linking the jabs, unless his timing’s off, short of you doing something invincible, you’ll end up getting counterhit.

st. HP:
Sagat’s far standing fierce gives back most likely -9 on a JD. This gives a 3 frame window to hit him back with a 6 frame sweep. Not too bad, but not brain dead easy like hitting back a Cammy st. RH. Rival Sagat could fierce and super him back for JDing a fierce. Cammy could likely RH super. And so on. JD’d st. fierce isn’t all that safe.

st. LK:
Sagat’s st. LK gives -6 on a JD. At the range Sagat will be using it at, there’s practically nothing that can get him back in time to punish. Most sweeps are 6 frame moves, so they’ll all be a bit too slow. Maybe someone like Rock could sweep him back (5 frame decent reach), but even then, it’s a 1 frame window. So it’d be tight timing, something you’d need to practice on, maybe double tap or use some sort of trick to get some consistency. At any rate, you’d conclude st. LK is safe from JD. You give up some momentum, but at least you’re not getting hit.

st. MK
st. MK, JD’d is good for the other guy. JD eliminates the pushback, and at -18, gives the other guy time to do something like run up sweep, walk forward sweep, or something to punish. Or super. Basically easy to punish.

cr. LK
cr. LK, JD’d leaves you dead even on frames. If you were Chun, if you practiced getting your 2 frame cr. jab out immediately after a point blank JD, theoretically you’d actually beat him out if he tried to cr. LK again (likely reaction, they’ll be looking to do cr. short, short, something, and most people will continue their string, even if JD’d). M. Bison can’t use this, simply because Sagat will be using st. jabs on him instead, (faster move, safe on JD). Remember though, +1 is really really small. Realistically you’re more or less even. +1 only counts if you were looking for the cr. LK to JD, you get it, and you practice timing the cr. LP perfectly after. It’s not something where you can go, I JD’d a cr. LK by accident? Mash on cr. LP! That will get you killed. Also, make sure you’re in range to try hitting back with a jab or short of choice. Basically I’m thinking of when you get knocked down, Sagat tries a cr. short sometime as you get up, you JD it at near point blank, and now instead of him having a clear advantage from a normally blocked cr. short, it’s now anybody’s game momentum wise.

cr. MK
cr. MK is bufferable, but cancelling into the tiger shot isn’t always safe, especially if it gets JD’d too. It’s likely -7, so sweeping it back with a standard 6 frame sweep would be quite difficult (1 frame window), except for, Rock again. However, if he’s in range to cr. MK you, odds are after the JD, you can cr. MK him right back. cr. MK -> super would be a nice punishment. 3 frame window, so the timing’s not too tight. But might be something to brush up on once in a while.

cr. HP
cr. HP, Buktooth tested and found it’s -3 for sure. Minor disadvantage, nothing guaranteed. I guess you could press back a poke, like if you were Geese, maybe toss out st. HP or something for some safe on block guard damage. Minor advantage to the defender, but nothing specific.

cr. RH
cr. RH. Like most other sweep’s when JD’d, easy to sweep back or something.


Eagle:

st. c RH
Used by some Eagle players as a meaty. Normally at +2 in a nonmeaty situation, with 9 active frames, it could go as high as +10. Even if it’s only somewhat meaty, you could normally expect +5 or more. Hits hard, and on counterhit, you get a bonus +4. Not a bad move at all. However, if it gets JD’d though, it starts off likely at -7. If you hit with the very last frame, it’d be +1 on JD. Not likely though. For anything other than being super meaty, Eagle is at best even, the rest of the time, disadvantage. Since meaties are done at point blank range, if you JD a st. c RH from Eagle, it should be safe to follow up your JD with your own jabs or shorts, and do whatever from there. Basically, JDing turns an advantageous situation for Eagle, into a favourable situation for the defender.

cr. RH
-9 on a normal block, -14 on JD, but at the range he’s using it at, you can’t sit there and sweep to hit him back. You’d have to move forward a bit or something, so you’d have to spend some of that frame disadvantage moving forward. Makes it harder to punish than the -14 suggests. A decently fast super would allow for easy punishment (you wouldn’t have to worry about moving forward).

Non-JD analysis:
Also, at 4 active frames and 29 recovery frames, this move is harder to punish with a counter roll than you’d think. The fastest rolls in the game take 29 frames to perform. So 4 frames left to act. Say you were using Iori. His fastest move is his jab, at 2 frames. So you’d have to roll on the exact frame you were hit, or the frame after in order to punish. Otherwise Eagle gets away. Personally, I’d have to say Eagle’s cr. RH is safe from guaranteed punishment. The fact that you need to get the counterroll out basically ASAP to even stand a chance, plus perfectly timing the jab out of the roll, there’s too much that can go wrong. Iori’s cr. short, at 4 frames, would result in 29 frames to roll, 4 frames before the hit.Which means that the earliest Iori can act, is the exact same time Eagle recovers. So no good. So yeah. Counter-rolling the cr. RH doesn’t buy you anything guaranteed.


#5

It’s no +1 s.LP that’s for sure, but is one hit s.LK really -6? You must mean the two hit one right?


#6

[Edit: Rock’s cr. HK whiffs after a max range st. LK from Sagat. However, it seems that if the st. LK is JD’d range in range of the sweep, Rock can get him back. So it’s at least -6 for sure.]

Assuming Buktooth’s formula is correct, I’d say yes -6. Even if it was 2 hits, you’d still have to JD the second hit, right? I assume that on multihit moves, it’s the last hit that causes the blockstun. Now I could very well be wrong, as I haven’t tested the mechanics on how multihit moves work, but yeah. On the sheet, you can see I left out the startup for that move. The move is 5/2+6/10.

Assuming the second hit only causes 10 frames of hitstun, it’s 10-16 = -6. I did write above, that at the range s. LK is used at, -6 is more or less unpunishable. You can’t hit back -6 with a sweep. -6 makes me think cr. MK or something, but after JDing a st.LK, you’re probably not in range to press cr. MK. st. HP is -9. Which is why you get punished easy for it. 3 frames to sweep back, or whatever. -6 is really good for being that far out. Maybe if the other guy’s crazy, you could get reversal sonic hurricaned or something, maybe a rock sweep, but realistically, its safe.

So yeah, I’d probably have to test to see if it’s true. Guess a good one would be go to training mode, set the dummy to st. LK, then block low, and try to Rock sweep or Guile hurricane back?


#7

haha hey is this from last time when we played and i tried to counter roll with iori but got owned? anyways im not much of a fan of k groove, so i’d much rather see a list of common things that ppl do that i can counter roll…with iori. for example blocked blanka ball, thats an easy counter roll into fp flowers. my friend does rc electricity as i get up, i counteroll into cr. lk combo as well… but i think it depends on if he mashes or not.
can i counter roll rc hurricane kick and fireball from sak and punish? i think ive i tried it before but i didnt have success…but i have bad timing so maybe its just me

how bout anything of sagat? only thing i can think of is a blocked low tiger super.

feel free to add to this list, thanks


#8

this seems like the logical place to ask this question, cuz i dont know where else it would go but in a new thread, but does anyone know what exactly happens when you JD someone in custom combo state?

i’ve seen videos of people uppercutting through right after CC and i’ve seen people right on continue their CC. whats the deal?


#9

hmm, premium members can have attachments in their files. if you want, send me the file through AIM or email and i’ll post it up