Rate my Twelve...please?

twelve

#1

My execution needs some definite work (missing inputs is something an experienced player shouldn’t do if they plan on winning with Twelve), and I know I should be IADing more…any other advice, though? I’m open to any and all criticism that doesn’t include “don’t pick Twelve” or “cut yourself and die”. ~_~

(The Urien player hadn’t played me in 6 months, and I had just started using Twelve back then. Probably explains why I won that one. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: )


#2

Don’t pick Twelve.

I’ll watch the first vid in a little bit.


#3

Watch yamazaki play.


#4

need more (IAD) and cross ups


#5

Well…I’m not the best person to advise about using Twelve (my Twelve is decent but I only use him for fun) but I use him enough where I can give you some ideas.

First off, I like how you tried not to air dash all over the place agaisnt Urien. Just because Urien fucks that shit up with one air fireball. Stayed to the ground at times and poked. Using s.MP is good as well against Urien. He can’t duck under it and it beats a good bit of his pokes. j.HK owns Urien of course. Can’t do shit about it. Good use of EX NDL’s.

I would say your main problems would be wasting your EX too much on EX DRA’s (the air attack) and not mixing up enough on wake up. In the first round against Urien you literally spent 10 seconds of the match just throwing random EX DRA’s. EX DRA’s have high priority and are unpunishable on block but if you keep throwing them out eventually you’ll run out of bar and that’s not what you want vs. Urien. Then he can throw out tackles and you can’t do shit about it. Try to reserve some of that EX so you can always have the threat of a super available. Urien won’t be so quick to throw random tackles when you have the ability to super him through a tackle or after a blocked tackle.

Your other main problem was just flat out not mixing it up enough on wake up. Usually it was either j.HK, j.LP or qcb+HP. Didn’t really mix it up too much other than that. Good players will eventually just parry down qcb+HP since you can literally watch for the animation start up frames. It’s a good mix up once in a blue moon but otherwise…it’s just parry bait. Obviously the opponent has trouble blocking on wake up (like they should be against Twelve and easily negates any pressure from that move) or mistimed the parry on every attempt. Once in a while there was a whiffed IAD to throw but there should have been more of that. Especially against Urien since he has no real defense for that shit (outside of EX Aegis). You should have tried to mix in some s.MK after the j.HK since that connects as a two hit combo and you can super jump cancel into IAD after the s.MK to set up for another IAD mix up and so on.

Going along with your problem of using too much EX…you need to learn how to combo into your supers. There were times where c.LK, qcb+LP to super could have been easily set up after an IAD. Unfortunately all those attempts were instead thrown in with qcb+HP or EX DRA. Both of which were usually either blocked or didn’t create a knockdown so you just ended up wasting bar. s.MP to super is good after a c.LK to bait a poke/throw, after an IAD or after you parry a move with recovery to verify into a super.


#6

Get Evolution 2002 DVD and watch Chikyuu. Also watch his 12 tutorial at combovideos.com. Also read the SFAE strategy guide for 12 (however I disagree on some of the stuff in there)

Overall, not bad. You kept a good ground game and I like that. Even though Twelve succeeds mostly in the air, I think players should develop some sorta ground game. But dont throw out too many far MP’s. MY main use for them is, walk-under fireball to MP while they are still recovering. Use a few more NDL’s as well, normal/EX. Crouching LK/MK is your best friend. Crouching LKx2, crouching MK is your best poke string. I always use.

Don’t throw out very many random HP’s either, your lucky neither of those guys punished you for them. And always after it hits an airborne opponent, go for a HP/EX NDL, hit or not it keeps them pinned.

Learn Air-Dash MK (Whiff) to walk-up throw. Mix this up between air dash LP (block) to throw. Espcially against cornered opponents, but you will have to learn AID to make it much more useful.

Jumping HK, land Jumping HK also works well, espcially against cornered opponents. I’ve even been locked in it. Also after a jumping hk, jump back hit HP in case they jump so mix it up.

Air-Dash MP is also good. Safe if blocked from max range, possible tick-throw or walk-up throw. A bit risky. If it does hit, land and NDL them or reset to XNDL (risky). MK also works in these same cases.

Dont overabuse the EX DRA. Cause that got you in trouble. Mainly to punish whiffed ground attacks or get out of corners. Every once-in-a-while as a poke is ok. But you used it so much that your opponents learned to counter it.

Also, you got lucky with the A.X.E. on wake-up. I mean it works ok but very risky. I would say try to cover it up with a cr. LK at 1st. Or early EX one, so it’s already out when they get up. Also learn to super cancel it to XNDL if it does hit.

Never throw when getting up I saw u do that against Ibuki…BIG NO NO!

XNDL is not a great anti-air. The opponent has to be a character’s length away from you and very deep.

Maybe try for a UOH on wake-up every now and then. Cost most players are used to blocking high to low when playing against 12. So use it also after jump-ins to throw them off guard. Also possible to walk-up throw after, but not the safest thing.

After a throw. I like to go for a air dash HP (max range so the tip hits), blocked or not hit them with a standing HK. This is a miracle against n00bs lol or I liek to use a HP/EX NDL on wake-up after landing a throw.

U did good against Urien none-the-least. That aint an easy match-up, just try to balance out ur ground and air-game. And stay outta da corner.

Ibuki, I was expecting u to have problems. Cause she has such a better mix-up games and lots of tricks. Stick to the airs there is my advice.

Learn standing close MK, XNDL for punishment situations. If u have no bar just throw them.

Overall, ur already pretty good.

Welcome to the art of Twelve…brother


#7

Hell…I’ll watch the other vid too just cuz Ibuki’s in it. :tup:

After watching that vid…I can say that the Ibuki player themself needs a good bit of work. Always uses s.MK to hcb+P on wake up which is safe but…if it’s the only mix up you use you’re really letting a lot of potential damage against Twelve slip away. Not enough poke strings and too much jumping in with j.MK. j.MK is a decent jumping attack but I try not to use it too much unless it’s going to cross up since it can be punished with a throw if it doesn’t connect ultra deep. At least as a cross up there’s a bit more of a mix up factor.

EX kunais should have been used during jump ins to allow for frame advantage to set up mix ups and to further keep Twelve from jumping in the air. There was points where you could have used XNDL to punish Ibuki’s jump ins. The Ibuki player always did the “scrub” follow ups after close s.HK. Namely another s.HK afterwards. Which knocks the opponent away from you and doesn’t do much damage. Should have went for j.HP, f+MK air chain (which does good damage and stun) or s.MK cancelled to qcf+K to start pressure after a reset. Ibuki only needs to pull the right mix ups a few times to put Twelve in lots of trouble.

Ibuki shouldn’t have been jumping in that much to begin with. She can actually win vs. Twelve by staying more grounded and punishing Twelve’s air game with kazekiri/EX kazekiri. Either one will trade with or beat all of Twelve’s air moves and a trade is all you need to get Twelve grounded. Once Ibuki gets Twelve grounded all he has to do is guess wrong on wake up and he eats tons of damage. The Ibuki player at that point should have been mixing in tick throw strings and utilizing qcf+LK after s.MK to set up for more pressure. Jumping in with kunais works great too since Twelve has no way to reverse them and gives Ibuki plenty of advantage to start more mix ups.

The only time the Ibuki player really stayed grounded was when they were close to losing the match. Which even then…a quick dash to kazekiri would have created a knockdown easily since your Twelve was in the air way too much vs. Ibuki at the end of certain rounds. All Ibuki has to do is AA you once from the air and you can kiss your ass goodbye. If the Ibuki player knew how to Tiger Knee SA1 that would have made things infinitely harder as well. If you guess wrong on wake up she can just immediately activate super and make you eat tons of damage if you whiff a throw/poke on wake up.


#8

Cam and DevilJin: Thanks HEAPS for the advice. I have the Evo2k2 DVD, but I haven’t watched it since, probably, right before I went to Evo 2k5 (I played Akuma). And I never played as Twelve at the time.

The Ibuki player, Keela (Alex), just started playing Ibuki as his main a little while before this. His main used to be Makoto, but after beating the crap out of all of us with little effort and getting into more of a routine than anything else, he switched to Ibuki. I’ll pass a lot of the info on this along to him, too. He’s probably the best in ability in this town, though I’ve told him before that he needs to just sit the hell still when playing Twelve sometimes. So yeah, for now, he’s playing slightly scrubby with Ibuki.

I’m hesitant to use j.HK - land - j.HK against some characters…namely Ibuki. Her AA makes my Twelve sad. If I had some of my other matches up, you’d see me use that a lot more. Is there anything else to mix it up with?

I REALLY need to work more on execution (I can’t do that damnable qcb+lk > SA1 for the life of me) and on some of the more advanced stuff (super jump cancel s.mk > IAD, for example). If there’s one major flaw I have, it’s that I have a limit when it comes to doing some of the harder things in fighting games (roll cancelling and some A-Groove combos in CvS2, Taki’s complex possession mix-ups in Calibur, Genei-Jin crap in 3S, etc.), and it shows once I get into higher level matches. I hoped a year of practice and matches would break that limit, but I’ve only scratched it a little. So here’s hoping for the future on that one.

Playing against the Ibuki player so much, I’ve grown really afraid of doing a lot of stuff thanks to her anti-air. We play each other at least twice a week.

I’d comment more, but I’m pretty tired right now. Thanks again for all the advice, and hopefully in a month or so, you’ll see a Twelve vid of me NOT sucking. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Peace,
Michael
Dark Hogosha


#9

crouching LK, qcb + P, XNDL can be hard at first. Once you hit b + P on AXE immediatley do a hcf, qcf + P. Must be done quickly, the AXE must hit once. Playing SNK games will make u better at this motion lol


#10

Falling into a pattern is is main problem with Twelve, you have to have patience and remember to take a breather, mix up air and ground. I once hit a Urien player 5 times with standing MP cause he was so expecting me to go into the air. Also frustrating players helps alot, it causes them to react instinctively alot and makes them far easier to read. Faking works really well and stops those SRK happy players who want to DP your limbs.

Also be wary of space with twelve at all times, if something isn’t working don’t keep trying because you’ll just lose momentum and the opponent will be encouraged to rush you. Dashing under jump-ins while in the corner is something to look for since most opponents will be watching you to try and fly out.

Fun patterns against intermediate players:
IAD HP, cr. LK jump back HP/EX Dive/AXE works well.
IAD HK outside sweep range, jump back AXE.
IAD HK, MK > IAD away HK, HP
Jump-in buffer parry LP, jump forward HK, MP > XNDL

Problem is after playing a few games I just lose concentration and fall into patterns. GGPO


#11

You need to learn it. I can’t watch the vid because of my damned computer at work but yeah, learn the qcb+lk > SA1. I really struggled with it for ages, then I started playing CvS2 with A-Groove Chang/Hibiki/Sakura and learning the SNK style super motions for Chang and Hibiki reeeeeeally helped me when I came back to 3S. But yeah, practice how to do it. I’ve lost count of the amount of times that combo has quite literally saved my ass.


#12

heres the super secret trick to beating ibuki.

step 1. pick Oro

step 2. jump in and dash through her SA1

step 3. you win


#13

stfu…all Twelve haters must die!