RC'in, Infs, Kara Throw, l-cancel. etc


#1

How do ppl found find out these wacked out things in fighting games. for example, roll canceling and infinites like the one wolverine, and Magneto have in X-Men vs. Sf. When i was little i looked at fighting games as cool but meh at the same time. The day CvS2 came out for the Ps2 some years ago. Me and my homeboy played the shit out of it. thinkin we found out every little thing you could do on it, and did the same for other indepth fighting games. And left that shit alone. but then nowadays you can find something out of the ordinary out of any fighting game now, and apply it to competitive gaming. So now. Im asking this question to all the sf players that goes to tourneys, and actually talks to the top players whether they are japanese or american or whatever. How the hell did you find this crap out?!! Did you just happen to play one day and roll cancel by accident? Or do the top players just purposely try to find something crazy? The new rushdown with Toki and the game hasnt been out for very long but we already sem to know whos the rushdown king in that game ala Magnus, and already seem to tier the new fighters even though im pretty sure the list will change after some real playing, and testing. Cuz this shit in all of these different fighters is outrageous. Please discuss because this has been bugging me since the beginning of last year, and i never seem to remember to post this thread asking this question.

not to sound like a noob. i just have to know.


#2

as you play it, you might notice something really strange that happened… so you try it and try it until you figure out what’s going on with it…

for example… people knew this combo with magneto in mvc2

c.hp, sj, hk, addf, d+lk, lk, land, s.hk 1 hit xx shockwave

other people knew the jump infinite…
j.lp, d+lk, lp, land, repeat

now, you mix the two and you can say… after i do the launch, sj.hk, addf, d+lk, lk, land, i can super jump, and then addf again and if i hold down, maybe i can get an infinite. thus, probably how rom figured out the rom.


#3

Also, when you’re playing it competitively and for money, you’re really playing for every little bit of damage and looking at the details, which pushes them, I’m guessing, to push combos until they become ridiculous things like infinites.


#4

You dont sound like a noob, i actually think this thread is could be very interesting.
As for me i just play a game to death and think of all different combo possiblilities and test all the things out i had in my head, sometimes they work out and sometimes they dont.
Sometimes when i am playing i might find a glitch accidently, then i will just try to remeber what i did, or if i dont i will ask anyone else if this has happen to them befor and ask if they remeber what they were doing at the time etc…
You can also look at different games that have a similar type engine to the game your playing and try to see if things from one game will work in another game,
and lastly once a glitch/combo is found out you can try different things/variations of them to get different results which can lead to new glitches and new combos.

oh yeah and a question… ROM was in XvSF befor it was even in MvC2, was it found out in XvSF first or was it found out in MvC2 and then people starting using it in XvSF?


#5

Roll cancelling was found by a cvs2 balrog (the boxer dude) in yokohoma, jpn. rumor has it that he was just trying to cancel the roll into the rush to get more distance for the rush. Then he showed it to everyone at the 1st jpn cvs2 nationals (the one nuki one) which bas told me over aim. He told me while I was at work and the only person i had on my aim list that was online was shadyk. So me and Long tried to talk it all out as he was experimenting trying different things.

Note: kamui and mopreme found something damn similiar in cvs1 - cancelling rolls into taunts.

Infinites - i think everyone has found an infinite in XSF or MvC2 by now. They aren’t hard to find.

Kara throws are very similiar to roll cancelling - cancelling something on the first few frames into something else. I wanna say Bas told us about kara throws also but I could be wrong. Maybe him or liquid metal back in the day.

I don’t know wtf l-cancel is.

Toxy: Rom is/was a jpnese mvc2 player and he found the infinite in mvc2. He showed it to liquid metal who showed it to everyone at b5. From there everyone went back to all the old marvel games seeing which ones it could be applied to.

From this post it looks like Jpnese find everything which isn’t true at all. Americans have found tons of things and in this day age with everyone talking to one another via the internet, ideas are quickly exchanged and built upon.

Derek Daniels


#6

I think it has to do with the level of seriousness you’re thinking on when you play a game. What is your mindset? If you’re just playing to have fun and explore, then yeah, you’re not going to find a lot of stuff. If you go in with the mindset of “I’m going to break this game wide open” then you’ll eventually find something ridiculous. You’ll see something strange and instead of saying “huh, weird” you turn around and study that thing until you understand it. Once you understand it, you can manipulate it.

Once people figured out you could cancel a roll in CvS2, it didn’t take much thought to realize the implications of being able to cancel a roll into a special move, especially with characters like Honda or Blanka. Before I knew much about CvS2, a friend and I actually discovered roll cancelling by accident one day when I threw a fireball at him and he passed right through it by doing a fireball of his own. We were so stunned that we paused the game and tried to figure out what had happened. We never came up with an answer, but if I had known more about the game at the time I probably could have figured it out.

I think a lot of “discoveries” happen because people know what to look for. Experience plays a big role in finding a glitch or an infinite. You know what to look for, and you know about complex things like kara cancelling and 1-frame links. Being able to explain what you just saw goes a long way towards replicating it.

And besides, some stuff is just obvious. If the first time you saw Sentinel you didn’t immediately think “INFINITE!” then you weren’t trying. Any character can do infinites on Sentinel because he’s so tall, and even when I didn’t know shit about Marvel I knew that the robot was an infinite magnet.


#7

i think it also depends on if you want to be known for something. yeah you could win at the big tournies and all but some people want to be known throughout the whole thing so they may find something that everyone may one day use and be remember for discovering it. it all depends on what you are trying to accomplish.


#8

It really does not depend on shit because most of these glitches are found by accident (like what omni said on how roll cancel was found).

It really does not matter if you suck or not, even scrubs can find out about these crazy glitches.

Infs are not hard to find in any game really.
All your trying to do is make your combo as long and damage as possible. In the process, you just happened to find an inf and there ya’ go!


#9

IMO it also helps if you are exposed to other games…a main reason I play as many fighting games as possible…I juggle like 50+ fighters all at once…only ones I dont play are GG and Marvel(CVS2 and 3s are dying now also). Being exposed to all those games and their intracies helps me apply this universal concept of fighters to everything and helps me find broken shit a HELLUVA LOT FASTER.


#10

When you’re doing an aerial attack in Smash Bros Melee and you’re still doing it when you touch the ground you can do away with some of the recovery by simply pressing L, hence L canceling.

I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I PLAY SMASH NOW~


#11

People find these things from playing the same game day after day. After playing a game for so long you’ll find things and begin exploiting them. An example of this are speed runs. Back in the day i used to play Double Dragon 2 so much i could probably write book on how to beat the game on a single life, becuase of random shit i found


#12

sentinel unblockable was founded by the arizona crew


#13

ssbm, the game to get into if you like badly named techniques.


#14

I think it’s appropriate to name the technique after the person who discovered it (like “Valle CC”, or “ROM infinite”), but that doesn’t really happen very much…:sad:

As for how to find new stuff, for me at least, it’s just a matter of finding/noticing one small thing, thinking about all the possibilities it can lead to, then experimenting.


#15

Man…
That game only has true 2 techinques yet the SSBM community tries so hard to make it sound all complex.

Yeah there is wavedashing, waveshielding, wavedashing backwards, wavedashing while you jump up a bit, oh yeah, there all different I swear

STFU THERE ALL THE SAMETHING!!!

Ok, thats enough of my rant ;(


#16

It’s not so much that Smash is technical, it’s there’s too many damn ‘techinques’ given to everyone. They don’t really apply frame data unless they’re talking about using the C-stick, everything else is giving a name to spamming pills with Dr. Mario or other things. That’s what makes the game such a headache, otherwise I think it’s pretty simple to get into really.


#17

Crouch canceling = using the fact that there is less knockback on crouching characters
sex kick = an air attack that is active for a long period of time
L canceling = canceling landing recovery with a shield


#18

You see, a tech like that doesent even need a name!!


#19

Exactly. It’s just some slow ass kick that needs to sound on par with the rest of the fighting world. SSMBM is over rated, good fun but deeply iritating.


#20

I personally thing only certain people have an eye for this stuff. And then the info leaks out and it broadcasted everywhere. Like when shadyk and all them found guard breaks with cable… went to evo only knowing it but havent perfected it. Next evo, everyone was doing it. I think a lot of times it happens and people do the “WTF”, then they investigate, then perfect it. Sometimes, me personally, I think some people have an eye for this stuff and get creative. After playign so many fighters, you tend to try the same effects on the new fighters to see what happens, or thus discovering something else.