RE: TTT2 needing revamp (article taken down)


#1

shoryuken.com/2012/10/01/getting-ready-for-a-new-battle/

I’ve been saying this for a long time. Tekken is just way too hard for new people to get into. TTT2 is no exception to this rule. I’ve played tekken since 5.0 and while the game is getting easier with each successive game, it’s no where near the level of mvc3. The game continues to be a joke in the Western world and serious game in Asia, this needs to change.

Anyone have a clue why the article was taken down? It had over 200 comments!


#2

:eek: The article could have been taken down for any number of reasons.

I can guess a few to myself right now. Regardless, it’s down and that’s that.

I’m glad there’s a thread for this so that this topic doesn’t disrupt other threads here; I feel this is an important issue to talk about.

I put a lot of stuff over in the other stickied thread, so I will be succinct here for now.

Tekken is a hard game to learn. This much is true and undeniable. As far as it being hard to “get into,” I will respectfully disagree. The game has mechanics, styles, and even entire characters designed to appeal to new players even if they don’t have an experienced someone to help teach them the game.

As far as being near the level of…Marvel 3…I’m almost positive that the series has no plans to go in that direction…whatever that direction is. Whether you have a positive, neutral or outright negative feeling toward the idea of mashing, the Versus franchise in general is designed at its very core to be over-the-top, zany hyperbolic fighting action. In this new age of accessibility, Marvel 3 has carved its own path regarding how new players should play that style of game, but to compare Marvel 3 to Tekken I feel is very skewed; definitely not an apples-to-apples look.

Regarding how the game is perceived, I think it’s a bit far to say that the game “continues to be a joke” in the West. Very much like Virtua Fighter and King of Fighters, you only really hear the people who complain. Everyone else who actually plays the game is busy studying, learning and leveling up while attempting to grow and stabilize their communities. Asia takes Tekken seriously, but so do people here; you can make whatever judgments you like about the skill gap, but people take it seriously here…you just hear more people whining than playing games they like. Tekken is very much a worldwide franchise, as well. Don’t forget about places like Australia, the Phillpines, Eastern Europe…it’s not just Japan and Korea that play this game (this is going by the very healthy assumption that by “Asia” you meant “Japan and Korea”).

The article is more or less a summary of the stigma this game and its genre at large have with the comfort-zone crowd, with the casual crowd, and with the new crowd. Tekken players are more or less up front and honest about their game; the onus is on the player to take the dive and explore. Of course, not every game is for everyone. I expect a great deal of people to never ever like Tekken ever. And that’s fine. The series, however, seems to be getting vilified more and more as the language of the fighting game culture becomes more vitriolic as we draw more casuals in and expand our core from the player-tournament culture to the stream monster culture.

Damnit.

Did it again.


#3

Cause it was poorly written full of fraudulence and it was clear by the time you got through the first 100 words that the writers didnt have enough experience with tekken to compose a tweet about it let alone an article of that length.


#4

:tup: Great post, I’m completely new to tekken as for playing it, but I’m not crying “Hey this game is to hard, dumb it down for me”, I understand that Tekken has grown and evolved to what it is today, and so have the players that have stuck with throughout the years. I also understand that in order for it to not be hard and complicated, I have to also put in the time and dedication to even be somewhat decent at it.


#5

I’m too lazy to rewrite everything so…

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/jgecks


#6

First of all what was the point of the article in the first place? It wouldn’t have done much anyways.

Namco makes a solid game and people complain it’s too hard. Capcom makes SFxT, a much more casual friendly game, and they get shit on.


#7

That’s stupid. I used to dislike the series because I thought it was too button masher-friendly, but I was just very salty after losing to spammy Kazuyas and Capoeira Fighters and didn’t understand concepts like “low parry”, backdash cancelling or PROPERLY blocking. I disagree about dumbing it down. I’m enjoying the game and I’m having less problems with Tekken’s juggles and chain combos than Street Fighter 4’s links. There are lots of tutorials and resources on the 'Net for beginners. Hell, this game has a decent tutorial unlike SF4 and UMvC3.

Games in general are being too dumbed down. I would rather play a shooter like Half-Life, Painkiller or Serious Sam over something like Call of Duty with regenerating health and I’m finding Code Veronica X more challenging (Also still have RE2 and 3 to play) than RE6 (Hated the demo. Don’t think I’ll even buy the game used.)


#8

Seriously what is there to dumb down in tekken? Besides making the movement “easier” smoother or safer. And making getting up not as dangerous There’s not that much to dumb down.

There are plenty of difficult motions if your gonna say EWGF or wavedashing in other games also.

Every time I play tekken I feel like i’ve jump back to early mid 2000’s even with TTT2… Just like with the resident evil series, there’s something arcanic about their system that at the same time is what makes the series what it is.


#9

Someone commented before how at the last major there were 77 entrants for Persona and only 58 for TTT2. That in itself represents a failure of the game to captivate a real audience in NA (hence why we call TTT2 a joke in NA). From what I’ve seen in tekken in the past, the number of entrants in tournament will only go down from this point forward. Tekken usually peaks in the first 3 months post-release and then dies off quickly after that.


#10

The world doesn’t revolve around N.A.

The problem is the different mindsets. In asia, there’s less whining, more training. Here, we complain when something is too hard. Hey, people complain about math being too hard even with wolframalpha, TI calcs and softwares basically solves even calculus homeworks and shows solutions for you. We complain when our fries are not served after 1 min. We complain about our games being too hard etc.

People just need to man up. We want HONEST fighting game, where hard work is rewarded, that won’t have extreme mechanic catered for noobs? We got it? Where they at?

Harada considered adding a “block” button before, which is almost a cancel of some sorts, (gonna make BDC easier) but scraped it. Probably because it will complicate the game more and the game will revolve much more about movement (which it is already). They nerfed the movement before in T6 at least to help noobs who don’t move much, encouraging the aggressive playstyles. The movement barrier is there to at least not make it a turtlefest, even BDCs are flawed too.

Second, getting up properly is signature of Tekken, there’s nothing as more rewarding either way. It can turn the match either way, and it makes for exciting matches. Oki in general is already “dumbed” down because of tag crashes anyway…

The game doesn’t have to change. It already catered too much for the casual audience gameplay-wise. There’s no point trying to attract people who won’t play the game anyway no matter what…


#11

Link to the article or did I miss it already?(will check again). The only thing that needs revamping is the evasion system. The basics of it I understand, but even then, it’s still not as concrete or as open as VF. The movement system as well is another area they could address. I understand that BDC and Wave Dash are the things that make Tekken, Tekken, but just something as simple as making the dashes that are already there viable would be better. You could still make BDC and Wavedash have their advantages, but throw a bone to the dashe that are there on the surface.


#12

^
^
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If you’re talking about Tekken having a VF sidestep, it happened already in T4. The movement is buffed to much and the game revolved around poking. But it made the fights uglier and boring. It don’t help too that Jin got a full tracking out of df+1, 4 which made him broken amonst other things.

The game have hard and sometimes “less than precise” movement for a reason. Proper movement in this game almost nullifies every single mechanic out there. High/Mid/Low mixups are nothing if you’re out of range, you can’t punish anything when they’re spaced, there’s no throws to break, and any kind of projectile can be SS’ed. What they can only do is to make the movement to take more skill, so the offense-oriented players can still shine.


#13

Why not just make more options to deal with it then, with proper counters to it. VF has tech that completely nullifies the entire basic poke and throw game of the system, however, even then those options have at least 2 counters to them. VF2-4 series had ridiculous movement tech, yet you could still play the engagement game with out movement overpowering everything, yet it still gave you the options to deal with your opponent properly without being random . The players that had a grasp on both the engadgement game and advanced movement just had that much more advantage yet still had to be careful not to be greedy and apply it properly.

VF heads bitched( and still) bitch about the movement nerf of The VF 5 series, but even with that, new option selects came out of it as well as risks and rewards. You can still zip around the arena when you need to however.

Putting my biases aside, I’m just saying make the system more open so when changes do occur it doesn’t take away from the core but alters to the changes without making so simplified it becomes stupid.


#14

Because options “complicates” the game? Look, we’re on a thread about a article who wants to dumb down the game. :stuck_out_tongue:

Also, the basic counter to movement here is homing moves. It’s basically the “anti-air” that MYK was talking about. Not only that, BDC has a open part where you are susceptible to attacks. BDC is hard to make it safe, but for spacing out, it serves its purpose. And also, you gotta reward those people who practice the game for hours to make that BDC almost safe. Though I won’t recommend that for everyone, it’s their choice. You can win games without nailing BDC completely, but it helps.


#15

here we go with this shit AGAIN. what is it with the newer generation of fg players? WHEN HAS PRACTICE AND LEARNING IN ORDER TO IMPROVE BECOME THE ENEMY OF THE FIGHTING GAME PLAYER, or for that matter, anyone who wants to improve at ANYTHING? has CoD, sf4, and marvel3 really spoiled this crowd to the point where they can’t see things clearly? here, i’ll spell it out for you.

you want to play the game, then play it.
you like the game after playing it, you’ll play it continuously.
you play the game continuously, you’ll get better at it. VIOLA!

nothing special, nothing novel, nothing mysterious, nothing fancy, nothing that’ll require you to sell your right testicle, just plain old practice-play-learn-improve. familiar to anyone?
i have a serious question for these people spewing out this garbage that “tekken is too hard”…
DO YOU GUYS EVEN LIKE THE GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE?

And lastly, since when has tekken become a joke in north america? where did that sentiment come from? wtf? have we entered the twilight zone without my knowledge or something? WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?!


#16

There are things I would change in Tekken but that article was from a POV of ignorance, not from one of experience. Personally, I’d remove all the fluff from the game – and there’s a lot of it – but will never want to “dumb down” the tactics of high level play.

The amount of knowledge needed to handle the fluff is huge, but the amount of knowledge needed to play a specific matchup at high level, once the one time tricks no longer work, is reasonable and not different from any other game.


#17

I’m glad that said shitty article was deleted.

That piece of trash is some huge disservice to the FG community overall. Even after KoF XIII, people are still whining about a honest FG being “harder to learn”, “complex”, “demanding” and lacking any kind of comeback mechanic and/or insta-win resource to cater to lazy nubs, ala X-Factor/Ultras. We REALLY need that shit?

Like with KoF, people need to broaden up their minds. USA is just a tiny fraction of the world as it is, and a lot of good FGs are played in Asia, Europe and other continents as well. Even after all these years, USA is still stagnated with the blind Capcom fanboyism, limitting themselves to get to play good FGs that reward knowledge and effort in a proper way.

TTT2 is filled already with a bunch of “casual/newbie stuff” to make things easier to newcomers (solo being the most prominent). Thing is, there is no crutch move or situation where a nub can pull a fluck win due a comeback mechanic. So, you’re losing a match that bad? Too bad - no Ultras for you, no X-Factor - how about to ADAPT and LEARN the game?

Tekken is a hard series overall. Nothing is spoonfed into anyone, so if you want to play properly, put some real effort. The huge cap between nubs and people who actually know what they’re doing exists for a reason: to show the players their “true colors” - ie, if someone suck, there’s no way to cover it. Said people will suck.

If you wanna a 3D fighter being “dumbed down” (and also made by Namco), just play Soulcalibur V instead.


#18

Every time they wanted to cater to new players, instead of handling the real issue that I mentioned, we got gimmicks that made the game a bit worse. Rage in T6, solo mode in TTT2…
For the most part, I really like the EXTRA decision making the tag system adds, and the double life bar.


#19

Unfortunately(fortunately?) I didn’t read the article, but a similar discussion has.popped amongst friends about 3D diggers. Tekken comes up and the thing I bring up is the movement evasion system. as long as the options are clear and you can tell someone why they work and don’t work it’s all good. Sounds like this article was trash though, lol.


#20

You can check the article here.