Read before requesting overhead dive properties>>>>>>>>!

gouken

#1

BEWARE!!!

After discussing this matter with a couple of the shin-sho homies IAM and Delf I felt it imperative to share my thoughts and feeling on a matter which is like a thorn in many of our sides here in this forum…

I HAVE BEEN QUIET ON THIS LONG ENOUGH!!!11PLEASE DO ME THE BIGGEST FAVOR AND HEAR THIS OUT…

DO not ask for the gflip (vanilla) overhead dive property to be returned without first considering this:

No offense to anyone out there but if this entire forum tweets this dude Ono and there is a resounding call for this property to be returned as it was in vanilla we may lose the strongest aspect of his game !!! I have adapted to the super and AE versions and find it is way more solid than vanilla, its faster has a better angle of attack and the dive portion has a faster startup, the arc is better now and he comes down from his apex with dive kick faster than in vanilla!

For those that want vanilla properties to return , this is what will happen…
Your inside mix-up and crossup will suffer because you will get lazy and stop looking for the crossup opening/setups and ambiguous flip dive openings because you will falsely think those 4 options from the front side give you the greatest mix-up potential. Wrong , although they gave you good mixup potential in vanilla it was mainly due to the fact that gouken was a relative unkown character with a bizarre yet somewhat familiar flip kick(a la Akuma), while beingthe only one of the two with an overhead porperty to the dive kick, which added to the WTF factor.

Goukens mix up game may appear stronger because you have that extra option vs a crouchng opponent(which obv is great and use to be a mind-fuck vs opponents) but in that last instance where you can decide to slide or overhead dive,parry,flip throw(last 2 options actually should be used a split-sec earlier for max effectiveness, not at the latest point), he actually hangs in the air longer(in vanilla) somersaulting , making him more susceptable to reversal DP’s on wakeup because of the slower startup time to initiate the overhead kick , he will also lose to normals with faster startups like jabs etc , nj attacks with low hitboxes @ wakeup.

Currently you can pretty much ambiguous flip dive kick from so many hard-knock and non-knockdown setups, with the proper flip version lk, mk, hk respectively at the proper time and place. Which you could not do in vanilla. The angle currently** after the apex is far more advantageous than in vanilla.

The return of vanilla kick will change soooo many things that are time critical in a live match.

(dont hate me for this next paragraph)
All I used to do in vanilla was gflip, nowadays I still do , but i think I currently have the most advanced hands on understanding of the general applications and specifially the flip to dive portion of this move because NOBODY I have seen play on XBL or PSN uses it to stuff as much shit or get out of as much shit as I do. Call me pompous call me a scrub IDGAF!!! Yeah I said it…!

As you request this in concert remember: DO NOT ASK FOR THE EXACT SAME VANILLA OVERHEAD state clearly you want the startup , and everything to be the exact SAME as it is currently but with the overhead property vs crouchers ONLY to be returned.

Not doing so will nerf him beyond your wildest dreams.
please go back and play Vanilla , try the same stuff setups and everything and you will see what I mean. Try training mode and watch the reversals just come outta nowhere…!

Again this was not intended to piss anyone off or put anyones playstyle down it is merely a call to examine both sides before anyone says anything to Ono.

Thank you for your time…


#2

I wouldn’t worry about it, it’s not coming back, just like 2 zone counter isn’t coming back.

I can’t think of any command flip that has a dive kick that hits overhead.

You put it in there to make it look like you want it, something for them to consider and they say, “Absolutely not. but maybe this…”

People wanted to ask for all SORTS of wonky shit but you can rule out so much by understanding that first and foremost this is a balance update. So rule out any news moves or anything really crazy outside of tweaking frames and properties.

Secondly realize that Capcom has a design philosophy and there are certain things they see as logical. They are not going to change those things.


#3

Oh, for a second there I thought you didn’t want the overhead. You do want it but you want the rest of demon flip to be the same as it is now. I’m ok with that, even though they won’t do it because that will make him too strong because of the combo you can get.

You know what would be awesome and not too strong? If dive kick hits crouching, it gives an untechable knockdown that looks like akuma’s palm strike knockdown.

There! Problem solved, gouken has a true mix-up and it won’t be too broken.


#4

I’d also be worried about changing the dive kick taking away some of gouken’s safejump options. Atm I think he has some very good ones, off the front throw for example.

If the flip keeps it’s start up and properties and gets overhead properties, then naturally this would be good. But it’s not really something gouken needs. There are alot of other things that he needs. And Capcom could follow the path they’ve been on of just making him more solid in general, rather than giving him a few superpowered gimmicks.

I don’t have much experience with vanilla, but it seems the mixup from that would be too good. Nobody wants some 50/50 crap to be a major part of their character, we don’t want to turn him into fuerte. If the mixup would be too good then the standard ex senku combo from that mixup would be way too good imo. Having said that , I ain’t know shit about vanilla gf flip, I was even more scrubby back then, but those are my mal-informed concerns about changin the gouken flip atm.


#5

Your whole premise is purely assuming they will change its other good properties back to vanilla or that people will just get worse with its various applications.

That is stupid.

If they make it an overhead and that’s all they change about it, that’s a huge buff and that’s all it is.


#6

I found this kinda hard to read.

I like this.


#7

i just didnt want people to mistakenly ask for the vanilla properties to return…without considering all the aspects.

im sorry who are you?


#8

Nobody is going around saying “BRING BACK VANILLA DIVEKICK”

they just want it to be an overhead

this topic is pointless